NYCC ‘25 INTERVIEW-A-THON: Jesse Lonergan

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Are you a long time comic fan?

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Hey, Jesse Lonergan here, comic book creator.

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I'm titles like Man's Best with Points Like Pish's Show, Miss Truesdale with some guy named Mike Mignola and Drone All By Myself.

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And you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host, Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles.

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Joining me today is the ICER nominated comic book creator behind titles like Ghost of Science Past, ARCA, Man's Best, and Ms.

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Trousdale and the Rise of Man.

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He is here today to discuss his 23rd Street launch title, Drome, an ambitious science fiction epic about civilization and the fragile balance between chaos and order.

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It is my pleasure to welcome Jesse Lonergan onto the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Thank you.

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It's good to be here.

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Jesse, what a pleasure.

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I'm so happy to have you here on the Oblivion Bar.

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uh You have been, it seems like you've been sort of hitting the circuit here recently with the press for Jerome.

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So I greatly appreciate you being here.

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Yeah, it feels I've been doing a lot.

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I mean, it's a big book, like five years in the making.

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So I feel like I have to do everybody has to try and do what they can to promote and get the word out.

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But for me, also, are fun because I'm a comic book artist.

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So I sit alone in a room a lot and I have a four year old daughter.

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So I talk to her a lot and getting to talk to like.

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I'm a adult.

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who knows who Robocop is, you know, like, is nice too.

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Sure.

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That was actually gonna be my next question for you was I know some folks in the, you know, the creative world and comics specifically don't particularly love doing sort of the press stuff and they just do it out of necessity to sort of get the word out.

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So it's, it is sort of refreshing to hear you say that you actually enjoy getting out there and talking about your work with lowly folks like myself.

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No, I don't think so.

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No, I generally enjoy podcasts and verbal interviews, the email interviews.

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feel like tapping into a part of my brain that is just uncomfortable.

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When I'm talking, the words just come out and I'm like, there they go.

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Maybe it was stupid, whatever I said, but it's over now.

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But with an email, it's like...

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I've got time to read it again and hate everything I But yeah, I start editing it, start changing the words around, like worrying about commas and stuff.

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talking to a person is always fun.

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I always enjoy that.

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It's been a long time coming.

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I think there's a mighty Lonergan army of folks that we have been shouting from the mountaintops about the the untold genius, the unspoken man of the mountains, just like saying, hey, this guy is absolutely just top notch, grade A.

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And we actually have a friend.

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I'm going to play a clip from a friend later on this conversation, probably probably one of the generals of that army that you know quite well.

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But that's a little bit of a teaser for later.

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But to my original point is that's been sort of a long time coming to get you here on the oblivion bar because And I think folks on social media, Instagram specifically know how much, how big a fans Aaron and I are of your work.

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So it felt like, you know, the perfect time to bring you on now was sort of, again, the drone hype, the drum beat, you know, continuing to, to go.

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And before we get into drone though, let me just quickly ask you, you just got back from SPX, you know, a couple, a of weeks ago, we were talking to Jared throne next, last week on the show, who was also there.

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And he basically said, and I'm assuming you're probably going to echo this.

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that it's basically like indie comics heaven.

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So I'm gonna open this conversation with you the same way I opened it with him, which is you mentioned Jordan Crane on Instagram.

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That's the one that you really admire that was there.

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But can you think of a couple other creators that were there at SPX that you found?

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Yeah.

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Like Nate Powell was there.

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Um, and I got to, to chat with him, uh, a little bit.

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I was, I got to table next to Tony McMillan.

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uh like he, he and I are like good friends and we don't get to see each other so that much.

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So it was, it was nice to get to see him.

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Dan Mazer.

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Um, I, I sort of like, it has like these two things of like, I get to.

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to meet people that I've known for a long time that I haven't seen a long time, like Whit Taylor was there, Neil Bredo.

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But like, it's also a little weird for me because I feel like I've sort of somewhere in between mainstream and indie.

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it's like, I feel, sometimes I feel a little like, if I belong here, like, I don't think I should put my...

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Dark Horse books out on the table or something.

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But it's also just like, I can't keep up with stuff the way I used to.

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like, you know, it's just like that you get to walk around and see, see all this stuff, see stuff that you really can't see anywhere else.

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And yeah, it's kind of in the comics.

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It's definitely like, I don't know if there's any other shows anymore that are sort of like it in that way.

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Mocha is sort of like it, but has more of like an illustrator edge to it.

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And then I feel like some of like ape is gone.

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ah But yeah, it's just a great show.

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It's in Bethesda, which I think has this sort of benefit of like not being a terribly exciting place to be.

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So like everybody's there, you know, like Ronald Wimberly.

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is there Keith Knight is just they're just there like you know they're around Nick Britozzi is just walking around and as opposed to sort of like New York uh where I'll be in guess a week a couple weeks you'll be there as well um like New York it's like yeah you get about three blocks away from the convention center and you might not know there's comic book convention you know like uh so it has that quality of sort of like very contained and stuff so Always a lot of fun.

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Well, let me ask you this, to sort of go back on what you just said a moment ago, I found it really interesting that you said you were sort of in that in between where you are working on some mainline stuff over at Dark Horse, you've done some DC stuff here recently, of course, Boom Studios with Man's Best, all the things, right?

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I guess I sort of still see you as this sort of indie darling as well.

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What does it feel like to sort of be there in that middle?

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Are you comfortable being there or do you find yourself trending one way or the other?

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Yeah, I think it's where I am.

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I don't, I feel like I've gotten very lucky in that stuff that I did very much in more of a much more indie mindset has been sort of like applauded by the mainstream.

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Like, like Hedra coming out, like with image picking it up.

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Um, and then it getting nominated for, for an Eisner and then that sort of, you know, leading to work within the mainstream.

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I feel like I did this weird thing that was appreciated and now I still sort of do this weird stuff that I find interesting but that motivates me but I also I'm doing it for Boom or I'm doing it for Dark Horse or DC and I felt like, you know, DC it was small but I felt like when they asked me to do it, oh they wanted weird crazy layouts and stuff and they wanted me to like make a strange...

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four pages of art.

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And so I feel I'm yeah, I'm somewhere in between.

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we're talking about new gods for everybody who doesn't know we're talking about it was the issue three of new gods.

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Two maybe yeah.

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I forget.

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uh but yeah, it's like four pages.

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That's what they wanted, you know?

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And so I feel a little spoiled of like, I get to sort of do my weird stuff and then, you know, work with Quintanilla.

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So like, does, it does feel, yeah, like it does sort of a little bit of an in-between, but I think that's probably best for me.

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Sort of, that's sort of what I am.

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The moment that DC announces that Jesse Lonergan is going to be the normal artist on Batman is the day that I will I'll be so I'll be gone.

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You know, like at a certain point you get you get to this age where like you don't really understand pop culture with the youth and like you're just lost to it all and you don't like that would be me if they announce you as like the mainline artist for Spider-Man.

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I'd be like, what is happening right now?

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I would be shocked too.

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I would be like what what happened?

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Yeah, I guess I feel like that's never gonna happen In terms of like where am I it's like well I'm never gonna be the main artist on any flagship book like but like Maybe Dead Man's possible.

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yeah.

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Yeah, like like like Personally, it's like people are like, oh Batman would be the one I'm like Batman's cool.

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I love Batman, but it's not like that would be the one.

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I'd prefer something like weirder, like something where you could, I feel like there's more to sort of explore because a lot of Batman already.

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I kind of, love it when I can like find a character that I, you know, Marvel or a DC character that I think is interesting, but also you can still find all of it.

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Like, it's like, you know, there's actually not that much Dead Man stuff, for example.

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Like, it's like, you can track it down and it's gonna be like a little section Batman.

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It's like, that's gonna be shelves and shelves and shelves of books if you wanna try and grant Morrison it and read everything.

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And so I like it when you can find that sort of thing ah with the mainstream stuff, something that's where you can see everything.

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Mm Yeah.

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And, know, it seems like they'll speak on dead man really quickly.

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It seems like he's gotten pretty much untouched since Neil Adams has put his hands on him, you know, and I feel like.

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Yeah.

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There's the Kelly Jones stuff, but other than that, I also don't keep up.

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maybe there's like, you probably know better than I do, like the last 20 years of DC, but like, it seems like he's gone, yeah, sort of been left alone.

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Sure.

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Well, and to speak on what you're saying there too, I, if from a fan's perspective, I would love to see you be able to just sort of let your hair down and just go crazy with the character.

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And I think there maybe could be some constraints by doing like an extremely popular character, like say a Batman or someone, unless it's like maybe a black label or something.

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But I want to go back really quickly.

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I want to go back to SBX because I want to know what sort of, know, speaking of that being in the in-between and, and I'm sure a lot of folks were there maybe specifically to see you there.

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What was the reception for drone?

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I mean, if I was going, I would have been there to see you and then maybe a couple other folks, but drone.

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The drum sold out really quick.

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uh That was going to be question.

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It was going to be Jerome, but also we write it now.

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Both of those together.

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What was that like for you?

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Yeah, Drone sold out quick.

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I did not bring enough books.

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I think with Drone and sort of like Hydra where it's like people kind of look at it and like they want it.

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Or they don't.

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But I don't think it's really like an in-between.

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It's like you look at it you're like, definitely for me or definitely not for me.

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And so I think because of that, it feels like it does.

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Well, it doesn't have people pick it up and be like, I thought this was something else.

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Like, it's like, no, you, you know what you're getting.

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and it was, yeah.

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So like, felt like a good response, you know, like I had.

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And people ask about like process and stuff and you know, how I think about pages, which is always sort of like a, a cool thing to get to talk about with just, you know, like talk to like an 18 year old kid about page layout.

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So yeah, that felt like it was received well.

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We Ride at Night was pretty good as well.

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It's sort of, I didn't know what to expect because it is sort of a Batman thing and I didn't think it would necessarily do that well.

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I think the style and the aesthetic sense that sort of drives We Ride at Night uh fits in with SPX.

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Yeah, it's interesting.

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Drum, like you said, very much sort of showcases what it is on its cover.

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And I think 23rd Street did an incredible job in terms of the design and the dust jacket.

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All of it is really well made.

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And I think even if you didn't know what drum was to begin with, I think you could easily find what you're looking for on the cover here.

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And of course, you know, your design work of the cover is also great, but to kind of noodle on We Ride at Night, because I told you before the recording and I want to sort of reiterate this to the listener, is that I sort of purposefully came in ignorant to we write at night because you know, as a, would categorize myself as this Jesse Lonergan super fan, but you know, I, I, I feel like I've heard very little about red at night outside of the fact that you've had these ash cans at some conventions.

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So.

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It was meant to be like the sort of like quick bootleg, quick Batman bootleg that I was gonna do like super fast.

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And then it took three, months.

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Just because up until like maybe like two months ago, I've always been working on a book in addition to my solo stuff.

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know, like Ghost of Science, like with Drome, did like Ghost of Science Past and Arca and the first Miss Truesdale series.

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series and man's best.

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All of those were done while I was working on drone, like sort of in the background.

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And so we write at night was sort of another thing.

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I kind of wanted drone is, is this very, I think it's, balanced, but, like my obsessiveness with like the layout of a page and sort of the math of a page and the composition of the page is really like, a controlling factor in how drone was put together.

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And with We Ride at Night, I wanted to kind of go the other direction where it's really much more focused on like the illustration and also like drone, think is very clean.

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Like you pick it up and it's clean and orderly in the composition.

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And I wanted as much like kind of dirty noise as possible with We Ride at Night.

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so like kind of trying to use as many tools as possible.

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trying to do everything on paper, so no digital at all.

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it's like, if I'm going to get a gray tone, I'm going to do that on the paper with ah stamps or rollers, with stamp ink colored, black and white colored, gray colored pencils, green tones, just like as much different things in different ways.

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collage in there.

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I use photographs of a toy, like, you know, as much.

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as many different things and sort of trying to create this sort of like wall of noise visual experience with it, which was sort of, I think, very different from what I've been doing with Drone, which was this very like clean, very purposeful thing.

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I guess sort of also with Drone, there was like this big like seriousness and it's like a brick, you know, it's like this like I wanted like something like It's over 300 pages.

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know, I just ordered some books from New York.

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Like the boxes weigh like 30 pounds, but there's only like 12 books in it.

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ah which you'll still outlive in like the first 10 minutes of New York, have a con.

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thought, well, I'm just like, these are so big and heavy.

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can only, how many of these boxes can I bring?

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uh But like, so I wanted like, we read it and I had to be like, I want it to be cheap.

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want it be a photocopy.

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Like if Kinko's still existed the way it used to exist, I would have gone into Kinko's at like midnight and tried to make it on their copiers.

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uh But yeah, so totally this other direction.

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And then sort of a more chaotic.

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edging on nonsensical but more surreal abstracts sort of narrative.

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You talked about this kind of reminds me of a couple of months ago, we had trad more on the show and discussing sort of like the progression of his career and what it sounds like to me with drone, which has been sort of living with you, as you said, for many years now, and sort of this obsessiveness that goes along with being with a project that long.

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And then you move on to reroute at night, which sort of, as you said, sort of is like dirty and almost like fever dreamish in a way.

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Yeah.

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Mediated restraint is what he called it.

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Whereas.

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as someone like yourself who you know, you have a particular sort of story concept, you have this idea and you're pushing yourself to see if you can do it.

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And it sounds like, again, correct me if I'm wrong in assessing this, like, it sounds like drone was this sort of thought experiment with you to see if you could do it.

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If you could really go that obsessive and still live to tell the tale.

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And then once you've done that, you had to grow in another, you had to branch out.

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Cause art is art is growth.

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I think in a way like it, you had to like almost grow another branch somewhere else with We Ride At Night.

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Does that sound correct in a way?

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Yeah, I think, I don't know if it's how, how compulsive it is, but there there's always this thing of like, I don't know if I can do this.

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When I started drum, was like, I don't know if I can do this, you know, like there, there were narrative ideas and how I would express them that I, I definitely did not know how I was going to do at the beginning.

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Like I was like, okay, I'll get to chapter four.

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And I'll have to figure that out.

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like, and I like, I think I'll be able to figure it out when I get there.

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But like, sort of like, in that and sort of, yeah, with we write it now, it's like, don't know if this will work.

00:18:56.943 --> 00:18:57.884
I think it will.

00:18:57.884 --> 00:18:59.836
Maybe it won't like that.

00:18:59.836 --> 00:19:00.086
Yeah.

00:19:00.086 --> 00:19:03.228
That's sort of challenge of will it work?

00:19:03.228 --> 00:19:12.034
I think for all my solo stuff is kind of like, I guess it's more interesting to me just to be in that place where it's like, it might not work.

00:19:12.430 --> 00:19:15.232
It's probably not the best in terms of a career.

00:19:15.232 --> 00:19:22.298
ah Like to be like, those 50 pages didn't work.

00:19:22.298 --> 00:19:28.404
So, and also I think I don't really like repeating myself.

00:19:28.404 --> 00:19:31.888
Like you asked me about the podcast thing and whether it being difficult.

00:19:31.888 --> 00:19:37.917
What I do find difficult is being asked the same question because it drives me crazy to answer it the same way.

00:19:37.917 --> 00:19:46.359
And if I feel like the same words coming out of my mouth in the same order with sort of the same cadence, I don't know why, but it really bothers me.

00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:47.740
Like, I get really uncomfortable.

00:19:47.740 --> 00:19:49.500
I'm like, never say it that way again.

00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:57.163
ah So I kind of always like adding to things.

00:19:57.163 --> 00:20:07.145
think like we write at night is sort of an extreme end for me that I probably won't go there, but it might be something that like I incorporate into.

00:20:07.614 --> 00:20:11.142
more something else, something bigger, something more.

00:20:11.201 --> 00:20:16.991
Yeah, you add those tools that you that you learned from creating that we read at night and then you use them somewhere else.

00:20:16.991 --> 00:20:17.821
Yeah, exactly.

00:20:17.821 --> 00:20:21.643
And there's also things I learned like, don't do don't do that again.

00:20:21.643 --> 00:20:26.045
Like the lettering is all done but with stamps.

00:20:26.045 --> 00:20:30.246
So I had like three different letter alphabet sort of stamps.

00:20:30.246 --> 00:20:35.946
And one of them was like, the sort of looked like the old library date stamp books, but it was all just letters.

00:20:35.946 --> 00:20:38.107
And it was 13 letters long.

00:20:38.488 --> 00:20:47.650
And so I could do like, you know, a phrase with spaces that was 13 letters, but otherwise I'd have to start over and like, move everything around.

00:20:47.670 --> 00:21:03.289
But the one that for size wise, I ended up using the most was this staples brand address stamp that you're supposed to make where basically you're supposed to just put the letters in once and then just stamp a bunch of times with it.

00:21:03.289 --> 00:21:09.710
But instead, I these like little tweezers and I would like stamp it, stamp it once and then take them all out.

00:21:09.710 --> 00:21:12.789
It was so time consuming and like such a headache.

00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:14.450
It's like never again.

00:21:14.450 --> 00:21:15.369
Yeah.

00:21:15.369 --> 00:21:20.453
I like the way it looks at all, but such a pain to do.

00:21:20.453 --> 00:21:22.957
oh So yeah, like, I don't know.

00:21:22.957 --> 00:21:29.695
Sometimes I think like other people have the ability to like read how to do something and they're like, they got it.

00:21:29.695 --> 00:21:33.115
And it's like, no, I have to do it wrong.

00:21:33.115 --> 00:21:36.366
And then I'll understand why you don't do it that way.

00:21:36.407 --> 00:21:41.311
After I've done it wrong and it'll be something that's like, yeah, that's the first page of the book.

00:21:41.311 --> 00:21:42.580
They say, don't do it that way.

00:21:42.580 --> 00:21:43.673
It's like, I know.

00:21:43.673 --> 00:21:49.185
m But I have to look by making mistakes.

00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:51.770
the same exact way.

00:21:51.770 --> 00:21:55.564
I will mistake how to open a door once in my life.

00:21:55.564 --> 00:21:58.036
Then I will never make that mistake ever again.

00:21:58.257 --> 00:22:02.759
It's one of those things that like you said, I have to sort of, I have to learn that lesson myself.

00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:09.244
And I'm a firm believer that we learn the most from our mistakes and things that we do incorrectly because then we can build sort of build off that.

00:22:10.027 --> 00:22:12.808
One final question for you here sort of pertaining to we read at night.

00:22:12.808 --> 00:22:15.371
It's sort of a bit of an oddball question as well.

00:22:15.692 --> 00:22:17.252
What do you think fever dreams mean?

00:22:17.252 --> 00:22:25.401
Because I've heard you talk about this book sort of emulating or sort of maybe in the same neighborhood as a fever dream fever dreams that you and I have had and listeners have had.

00:22:25.401 --> 00:22:29.387
Well, like, do you have this idea of like, why do we as humans have fever dreams?

00:22:29.387 --> 00:22:31.359
It's maybe a big question, but I'm curious.

00:22:31.435 --> 00:22:36.549
I think our world makes a lot less sense than we want it to.

00:22:36.665 --> 00:22:50.422
I think we go through our days and we accept certain things, I feel like, actually I feel like kind of right now, for climate, it's being like, yeah, chaos isn't that far away, is it?

00:22:50.422 --> 00:23:00.269
In art, I kind of like the chaos and juxtaposition of ideas that maybe are unexpected or maybe seem...

00:23:00.607 --> 00:23:10.500
like non sequiturs, I find that leads to sort of an interesting way of thinking, having these two things sort of next to each other that are maybe incongruous.

00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:19.143
And I think it can be, can be like disconcerting at times, but also it can be like, I feel like can have a positive effect.

00:23:19.143 --> 00:23:39.503
And so I think that's what I find interesting about fever dreams and my dreams when I remember them, like the connections that are made, like I think probably all of us have had a dream where a person from our past that we had not thought of, maybe even didn't have that much of a relationship with even.

00:23:39.503 --> 00:23:44.105
Like I'm thinking about like people in college who have appeared in a dream within the last like year.

00:23:44.105 --> 00:23:55.928
And it's like, I'm not even sure of that person's name, but like, why, what, is my head pulling at there that this, person resonates in some way in my mind still.

00:23:55.928 --> 00:23:58.710
It's also kind of like the way your memories work where.

00:23:58.869 --> 00:24:12.356
You don't remember something and then you go to a place and all of a sudden you remember all these things, you know, like, like these whole narratives come back that, that I would have sworn five minutes ago.

00:24:12.356 --> 00:24:15.980
had no recollection of, like they're, they're there.

00:24:15.980 --> 00:24:20.862
And so there's this, this vast messy basement in our minds.

00:24:20.862 --> 00:24:24.463
And I guess I think that's where fever dreams come from.

00:24:24.483 --> 00:24:28.066
And, uh, I think, you know, potentially.

00:24:28.066 --> 00:24:43.842
I don't know that we write at night gets into it, but like things were uncomfortable with things that were not so not so sure about or worry about or like, you know, deep doubts and those sorts of things can come out in a fever dream, maybe in a safe way.

00:24:43.842 --> 00:24:44.373
is interesting.

00:24:44.373 --> 00:24:50.097
I'm very excited to pick up my copy of We Read It Night in New York here in a couple of weeks because I'm, want to sort of connect these dots again.

00:24:50.097 --> 00:24:53.912
I had this sort of mission to go into this blind because I wanted to hear you talk about it yourself.

00:24:53.912 --> 00:24:54.221
Okay.

00:24:54.221 --> 00:25:03.181
So before we get into our next question here, I have to play this clip that I teased earlier from a friend of a mutual friend of ours uh from a conversation that I had a couple of months ago.

00:25:03.181 --> 00:25:04.201
So here we go.

00:25:07.703 --> 00:25:11.046
I initially saw his art online and I realized we both lived in Massachusetts.

00:25:11.046 --> 00:25:15.779
The weirdest thing though is that he's one of the best comic book artists working.

00:25:15.779 --> 00:25:19.241
The weirdest thing is that he's my friend, but he's also an inspiration.

00:25:19.241 --> 00:25:25.057
And he's just someone I'm constantly like knocked out by his work, you know, and like his new book, Drome is, I've read the whole thing.

00:25:25.057 --> 00:25:26.748
I think it's his best work.

00:25:26.748 --> 00:25:27.407
I really do.

00:25:27.407 --> 00:25:29.789
um Also, I helped name it.

00:25:29.789 --> 00:25:33.663
But also besides that, even without that, I think it's his best work.

00:25:33.663 --> 00:25:34.323
It really is.

00:25:34.323 --> 00:25:35.564
It's incredible.

00:25:37.089 --> 00:25:37.460
All right.

00:25:37.460 --> 00:25:38.300
Well, there we go.

00:25:38.300 --> 00:25:40.442
Tony McMillan again, mutual friend of ours.

00:25:40.442 --> 00:25:44.135
Also a very, very excellent comic book creator himself.

00:25:44.135 --> 00:25:51.271
He was on the show a couple of months ago and he had a lot of great things to say about you and about drone, which is the next thing we'll talk about here.

00:25:51.271 --> 00:25:59.888
I think that perfectly sets us up for your brand new graphic novel over at the newly imprinted 23rd street, which is a, an imprint through first second.

00:25:59.888 --> 00:26:06.306
This came out on August 19th and I'll just do a brief synopsis just for the listener in case they're not familiar.

00:26:06.306 --> 00:26:11.229
So first there was nothing and then humanity was born and an endless cycle of violence began.

00:26:11.229 --> 00:26:18.972
From the depths of the ocean, a mighty demigoddess is called forth to reign in humankind's destructive impulses and teach a language of peace and harmony.

00:26:18.972 --> 00:26:25.957
Civilization quickly takes root, a great city rising from the desert, but the balance between chaos and order is a fragile one.

00:26:25.957 --> 00:26:29.568
And there are higher powers at work in this strange new world.

00:26:29.568 --> 00:26:34.061
So Jesse, you could easily, I think you could read this thing.

00:26:34.061 --> 00:26:37.281
in like a cool 30 seconds, 30 minutes if you really wanted to.

00:26:37.281 --> 00:26:49.801
But I think just like a lot of your work, anyone who's been a fan of your work for a while knows this, that it really rewards upon slowing down and sort of drinking in every page, and whatever proper time that is.

00:26:49.801 --> 00:27:02.432
So my question for you is, with the theme of life and death and sort of focusing on that idea, I think in this story within Drome and how, even we as humans are basically trained to always sort of look.

00:27:02.432 --> 00:27:04.143
into the future and always plan for that.

00:27:04.143 --> 00:27:04.983
Right.

00:27:04.983 --> 00:27:12.339
Did you have that quick digestion of the story in mind that we just spoke about to sort of counterbalance that, that theme.

00:27:12.622 --> 00:27:22.561
mean, Quick Digestion, yeah, think some comics, if they're 300 pages, it's gonna be a bit of a slog at times to get through.

00:27:22.561 --> 00:27:27.882
I think because of the lack of words, doesn't end up being that way.

00:27:27.882 --> 00:27:37.021
The time the reader, it's such a, I feel it's like a weird relationship between the maker and the reader of it because it's like, I was working for like five years.

00:27:37.602 --> 00:27:46.944
And so like, my perspective on it is so skewed because it's so far from how it's meant to be.

00:27:46.944 --> 00:27:50.487
And I can't see it the way it's meant to be seen.

00:27:50.487 --> 00:28:00.810
So I did think about that quality of it being sort of something that could go quick, but something you could also take time with.

00:28:00.911 --> 00:28:07.113
And I did want a sort of weight of pages, like to...

00:28:08.140 --> 00:28:16.324
be able to tell this story and to have it feel like, I think when you talk about life and death, there's this sort of vastness in it.

00:28:16.324 --> 00:28:25.898
And I wanted to sort of get at that sort of like sense of scope and it felt like it needed to be the size it is to do that.

00:28:25.898 --> 00:28:32.162
Even with or without words, I just feel like things don't go into your memory the way I wanted them.

00:28:32.422 --> 00:28:46.473
I wanted like, you know, when you get to chapter four or chapter five to have things that come back from chapter one that were sort of like in your memory, that it's not like you're still like you knew it and then you forgot it.

00:28:46.473 --> 00:28:47.855
but here it's back again.

00:28:47.855 --> 00:28:57.943
You know, like, and that sort of narrative movement, it's sort of like, you know, those big, big books where things go on across generations and stuff.

00:28:57.943 --> 00:29:00.726
I wanted that sort of feeling as well.

00:29:01.069 --> 00:29:02.470
But not necessarily that.

00:29:02.470 --> 00:29:07.529
wanted people to have to read it for years and years.

00:29:07.809 --> 00:29:08.529
Sure.

00:29:08.529 --> 00:29:19.376
And then we're also living in sort of this civilization, I think of our media, you know, a lot of times, whole TV series that take years to make like you similar to how long it took you to create drone.

00:29:19.376 --> 00:29:21.909
You watch them in a weekend, you binge all episodes.

00:29:21.909 --> 00:29:27.566
it seems like that's unfortunately, I say unfortunately, but honestly, I don't know if there's a wrong or right way to consume.

00:29:27.566 --> 00:29:30.156
There's just like different ways.

00:29:30.156 --> 00:29:34.788
It just feels like there's different ways of consuming things.

00:29:34.788 --> 00:29:46.391
I watch a lot of, while I'm drawing, like the last year, it's been a lot of police procedurals, like CSI or Law and Order.

00:29:46.391 --> 00:30:02.729
And there's something about how those shows work where it's like, one, I'm watching them pretty fast, but you get this actual familiarity with the characters because You've seen this tech, this tech guy on CSI for five years.

00:30:02.729 --> 00:30:08.452
His character has developed, not in big scenes, but like over the course of all these years.

00:30:08.452 --> 00:30:20.318
So it has a relationship with that character that I feel like with sort of like the prestige form it shows, you don't get because there isn't that time.

00:30:20.318 --> 00:30:25.048
know, like Severance is a great show, but there's only what, like 20 episodes?

00:30:25.048 --> 00:30:25.708
Yeah.

00:30:25.708 --> 00:30:30.621
Law and Order and CSI, that's not a season.

00:30:30.621 --> 00:30:35.365
shows must be approaching 30 seasons.

00:30:35.365 --> 00:30:39.146
that actress has been on the entire time.

00:30:39.267 --> 00:30:47.018
You have a relationship with, I forget her name right now, but you have seen this person age 30 years.

00:30:47.018 --> 00:30:51.234
And that's one way of consuming something.

00:30:51.234 --> 00:30:55.488
And then there's the really good movie.

00:30:55.566 --> 00:30:58.405
that's like two hours on and done.

00:30:58.405 --> 00:30:59.746
And that's it.

00:30:59.746 --> 00:31:04.645
know, I mean, now I feel they don't let movies be it.

00:31:04.645 --> 00:31:07.746
You know, like for a long time, you could say Blade Runner.

00:31:07.746 --> 00:31:10.306
was just this two hour movie and it was done.

00:31:10.306 --> 00:31:14.306
And it's like, no, there's just going to be more.

00:31:14.306 --> 00:31:15.705
So on it was a two hour movie.

00:31:15.705 --> 00:31:20.385
Now they're going to make more of it, which I think is a different issue.

00:31:20.385 --> 00:31:24.905
But I feel there's there's a thing you can achieve in a movie.

00:31:25.271 --> 00:31:29.932
But there's also something like law and order can achieve that a movie can't because there's so much of it.

00:31:29.932 --> 00:31:32.140
you get so much more time with these, with these.

00:31:32.140 --> 00:31:41.537
much more time and like the way the characters grow and potentially like the way an actor affects a character as it goes, you know, all those things.

00:31:41.597 --> 00:31:44.641
And so I just think it's, it's just different.

00:31:44.641 --> 00:31:56.048
You know, like I feel with drone, guess there's this, this sense of, my head of like, should I return to it?

00:31:56.069 --> 00:31:57.851
Should I, should I continue with this?

00:31:57.851 --> 00:32:02.354
And to me, like the main characters of drone are are done.

00:32:02.594 --> 00:32:09.374
There's room within the world for other stuff, but those main characters, it's like, I don't think I should touch them.

00:32:09.614 --> 00:32:17.253
I think that was a one piece story that should have sort of be left.

00:32:17.814 --> 00:32:19.800
Really quickly before we move on with drone.

00:32:19.800 --> 00:32:21.005
Were you talking about Mariska?

00:32:21.005 --> 00:32:22.439
Is that who you were talking about with law and order?

00:32:22.439 --> 00:32:23.372
Yeah, yeah.

00:32:23.372 --> 00:32:25.758
Did see her documentary on HBO about her mom?

00:32:26.001 --> 00:32:27.203
Jane Mansfield, right?

00:32:27.203 --> 00:32:29.876
Yeah, I didn't see the documentary.

00:32:29.876 --> 00:32:35.383
I mean, I know who her mom is and ah her end.

00:32:35.383 --> 00:32:39.357
she must have been very young, think.

00:32:39.357 --> 00:32:41.799
was in the car with her when she went home.

00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:42.359
Yeah.

00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:42.700
Yeah.

00:32:42.700 --> 00:32:52.346
And the documentary is incredible, by the way, I highly recommend it's sort of her approaching learning about her mom who she never knew because she was like four when, when accident happened.

00:32:52.346 --> 00:32:56.611
So she didn't all she's heard of sort of, sort of the legends of her mother and her sort of stardom at the time.

00:32:56.611 --> 00:33:07.150
But anyway, back to drone though, I'll say, you know, speaking on where you could take it possibly next, I think one of the strengths of this book, and there are many is the way you build out the mythology.

00:33:07.150 --> 00:33:13.589
Speaking of the speed again, I think we should stick on this idea of speed because again, you could read this really quickly, but I don't think you should.

00:33:13.589 --> 00:33:17.730
I think the way you build characters is really quick and I think it's done really well.

00:33:17.730 --> 00:33:25.750
Like we get hard looks at four or five characters if you include the two sort of folks in the sky.

00:33:25.750 --> 00:33:26.221
Yeah.

00:33:26.221 --> 00:33:30.561
Yeah, there's sort of two big gods and three demi-gods.

00:33:30.561 --> 00:33:32.262
Yeah, couple of side characters as well.

00:33:32.262 --> 00:33:41.750
And I think the way that you're able to get us to care about those characters pretty quickly and sort of not only just like care, but also see why they do what they do.

00:33:41.750 --> 00:33:48.335
And there's one character in particular that I'm thinking of and I'm trying to, know, again, I I know this book came out in August and we're talking at the end of September.

00:33:48.335 --> 00:33:55.420
So I kind of want to stay spoiler free, but on the same token, yes, yes.

00:33:56.340 --> 00:34:02.902
It's one those things where I feel like we could easily spoil this entire book, tell you exactly what happens, but you will not appreciate it.

00:34:02.902 --> 00:34:06.143
And you will not be satisfied unless you actually hold the book in your hands and read it yourself.

00:34:06.143 --> 00:34:07.045
It's one of those books.

00:34:07.045 --> 00:34:13.998
And I think that's the true like mastery of Jesse is that this book really rewards upon reading it in your hands, having the physical book in your hands, you know.

00:34:13.998 --> 00:34:21.637
I think when you talk about the speed aspect, I kind of think of it as like food.

00:34:21.978 --> 00:34:26.418
Just because you can eat something quickly, I don't think that's much of a comment on the food.

00:34:26.697 --> 00:34:31.077
I think that's more of a comment on you as an eater.

00:34:31.157 --> 00:34:37.318
Like, they drink a beer in 15 seconds, it's like, oh, that must be a really bad beer, a good beer.

00:34:37.318 --> 00:34:38.038
I don't know.

00:34:38.038 --> 00:34:39.657
No comment on the beer.

00:34:39.657 --> 00:34:41.777
It's just like, the person.

00:34:41.777 --> 00:34:43.181
So I think...

00:34:43.181 --> 00:34:51.920
I think one of the nice things with comics, and maybe more so than any other medium, is that you can choose how much time to spend with it.

00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:57.420
You can look at the art as long as you want and get into the art.

00:34:57.420 --> 00:35:02.601
you know, I can look at like, you know, the Dark Knight, which I was just looking at recently.

00:35:02.601 --> 00:35:12.322
And like, I can just like look at this page with Batman on a horse and just like spend time looking at, you know, this composition and Claws, Dance and Zink and how...

00:35:12.322 --> 00:35:14.003
beautiful it is and then move on.

00:35:14.003 --> 00:35:17.126
ah And I feel like books is not really the same.

00:35:17.126 --> 00:35:23.751
Like I don't think you really stop in a, maybe some people do admire sentences, but I don't really.

00:35:23.751 --> 00:35:28.074
In movies, you have no real control over that time.

00:35:28.074 --> 00:35:30.541
I suppose you could pause it.

00:35:30.577 --> 00:35:32.748
And music, it's the same sort of thing.

00:35:32.748 --> 00:35:41.670
But like, I think one of the things that I like with comics is how much control the reader has over it.

00:35:41.670 --> 00:35:46.293
and how much time you can choose to spend with something.

00:35:46.293 --> 00:35:55.809
And I remember how I would read comics in high school is I'd go to the comic book shop and I'd come home with my stack of five or six comics.

00:35:55.809 --> 00:36:03.956
And I'd read them once fast, then I'd go back, read them slowly, really looking at the pictures, and then maybe read them a third.

00:36:03.956 --> 00:36:15.088
I think the linear, straight-through form of reading of comics isn't isn't the best way to read comics.

00:36:15.088 --> 00:36:19.052
I'll back and forth between them is good.

00:36:19.052 --> 00:36:22.985
And maybe like going back a few pages sometimes.

00:36:23.045 --> 00:36:25.157
So yeah, I try to do that.

00:36:25.157 --> 00:36:33.518
like, trying to, there's one villain in the book, ah but we meet on like page two.

00:36:33.730 --> 00:36:35.570
Yeah, very early.

00:36:36.331 --> 00:36:55.356
But I felt like with the other characters, there may be conflicts and stuff, but it's not unjustified on either side, which is I think is kind of a very, I don't know, anyone who's been in a relationship and had an argument and can get perspective on it is like, well, you both have points.

00:36:55.356 --> 00:36:59.137
You're just, it's just that you're coming from different directions.

00:36:59.137 --> 00:37:02.668
And so trying to have that quality.

00:37:02.668 --> 00:37:06.190
I think like Kurt Vonnegut said he never had villains in his stories.

00:37:06.190 --> 00:37:09.744
Like everybody was just trying to do what they could do.

00:37:09.744 --> 00:37:12.737
And so I always liked that idea.

00:37:12.737 --> 00:37:21.474
And so that's sort of one of the things with those five sort of main characters is that none of them are like evil.

00:37:21.596 --> 00:37:24.333
I wouldn't say any of them are purely good either.

00:37:24.333 --> 00:37:28.193
think that that's the most interesting kind of character archetype, right?

00:37:28.193 --> 00:37:31.233
It's that good people do bad things, bad people do good things.

00:37:31.233 --> 00:37:35.853
You know, it's, it's this idea that like we are, we're, have you seen life of Chuck yet?

00:37:35.853 --> 00:37:42.494
The movie that came out earlier this year, Tom Hiddleston, it's a, it's an adaptation of a Stephen King novella.

00:37:42.494 --> 00:37:48.673
it, one of my favorite lines of the year from any movie was we, we contain multitude or Magnus, we contain multitudes.

00:37:48.673 --> 00:37:50.273
think it's now I'm now messing up.

00:37:50.273 --> 00:37:51.373
It's basically like that.

00:37:51.373 --> 00:37:52.224
are layered.

00:37:52.224 --> 00:37:56.246
layered individuals, know, that we, are not just a one note song.

00:37:56.246 --> 00:38:04.581
We have multiple things going on in us and once, and we are motivated by different things and we are, we desire different things and we are afraid of different things and you know, all these things.

00:38:04.581 --> 00:38:07.592
And I think that again, you really, you illustrate that really well with everyone.

00:38:07.592 --> 00:38:10.914
And again, I'm speaking very specifically of who we were just talking about a moment ago.

00:38:10.914 --> 00:38:19.148
And again, I guess if someone was going to categorize someone as like a antagonist throughout the story, I think he would probably possibly be it.

00:38:19.148 --> 00:38:20.460
And I was just curious.

00:38:20.460 --> 00:38:24.914
And I hate this sort of idea of asking a creator to explain what they meant when they did something.

00:38:24.914 --> 00:38:34.965
So don't feel pressured to do that with this question, but I'm just curious what you were thinking about humanity when you created that character and sort of their role in this larger world, I guess.

00:38:35.318 --> 00:38:40.480
I think there are very selfish, very spiteful people.

00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:51.525
Maybe people who have brothers, I'm an only child, but maybe people who have brothers and sisters, when they were young, an older brother or an older sister maybe took all of something so that you couldn't have it.

00:38:52.726 --> 00:38:54.485
That might have happened.

00:38:54.507 --> 00:39:02.793
And I think there are some people who kind of live their life in that mindset of like, I am gonna take it.

00:39:02.793 --> 00:39:06.317
Not necessarily that I it, but I don't want someone else to have it.

00:39:06.317 --> 00:39:15.684
And I just think that's like, that is a part, you know, like, and it probably exists in all of us to some degree, not a lot.

00:39:15.684 --> 00:39:21.378
it might, but it might depend on who that other person is that like, I know this other person wants this thing.

00:39:21.378 --> 00:39:23.351
And I'm, I'm angry with that other person.

00:39:23.351 --> 00:39:24.391
So I'm going to take that thing.

00:39:24.391 --> 00:39:32.365
Um, but there are people I think who exist in that state a lot, like, you know, and it's unfortunate.

00:39:32.365 --> 00:39:34.148
but they're there.

00:39:34.148 --> 00:39:39.403
And I think that's probably what's driving that character.

00:39:39.896 --> 00:39:41.128
Yeah, I could definitely see that.

00:39:41.128 --> 00:39:44.992
we see it in the first, like, again, that first page that we- Right away.

00:39:45.074 --> 00:39:55.873
Yeah, it's fight or flight, you know, like, I feel like some people will agree anything new with negativity, you know, like, ah it's different.

00:39:55.873 --> 00:39:57.134
I don't know what it is.

00:39:57.134 --> 00:40:03.471
I think because I sort of set everything in this mythological world, it's not small.

00:40:03.471 --> 00:40:05.693
Everything is big.

00:40:05.693 --> 00:40:11.556
And so this like fear and anger, it's not going to be like refusing to eat sushi.

00:40:11.980 --> 00:40:13.831
You know, like that's our daily life.

00:40:13.831 --> 00:40:19.434
Like the people are like scared of new foods, you know, but like, no, it's going to be like death.

00:40:19.434 --> 00:40:21.014
It's going be death and murder.

00:40:21.014 --> 00:40:28.878
And, know, because I think that's sort of what I like about mythology is it feels like it.

00:40:29.117 --> 00:40:37.309
think most of us on a day to day basis, our lives are pretty mundane and all of our conflicts are kind of micro conflicts.

00:40:37.309 --> 00:40:41.152
And, I feel like mythology, sort of takes those same sort of things.

00:40:41.152 --> 00:40:47.614
just like, it magnifies them up to, you know, uh extreme level.

00:40:47.614 --> 00:40:52.690
And I think it's, it's easier to see that way.

00:40:52.690 --> 00:41:06.041
I think when you sort of, uh, magnify, I feel like my early books, uh, the ones that nobody, uh, I feel like we're focusing on those like small little things.

00:41:06.505 --> 00:41:12.230
In some ways it felt like maybe I was just asking the reader to be too patient.

00:41:12.230 --> 00:41:14.030
asking the reader too much.

00:41:14.170 --> 00:41:20.934
And I feel like now I've sort of moved to like, if there's going to be a conflict, it's going to be a big conflict.

00:41:20.934 --> 00:41:25.358
you know, it's not going to be minor, especially with drama.

00:41:25.358 --> 00:41:28.739
It just felt like everything was meant to sort of be big.

00:41:28.739 --> 00:41:29.440
It's a big book.

00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:30.041
It's long.

00:41:30.041 --> 00:41:30.471
It's heavy.

00:41:30.471 --> 00:41:32.231
Like all those things.

00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:36.021
When I think of, I, you know, I was a, I've been a patron of yours for a couple of years now.

00:41:36.021 --> 00:41:39.753
So I've sort of seen this story, you know, slowly.

00:41:40.893 --> 00:41:41.204
Right.

00:41:41.204 --> 00:41:41.523
Yeah.

00:41:41.523 --> 00:41:46.076
And you releasing those pages on a weekly basis is like so awesome.

00:41:46.076 --> 00:41:56.621
And I'll, I'll build on this more later on as we close out the show, but you know, similar to what you're doing, you're doing a very similar thing right now over on Patreon with the Panda delivery service, which I'm super pumped about.

00:41:56.621 --> 00:42:00.172
I know you're taking a little bit of a hiatus from that for a bit now, but I think folks.

00:42:00.172 --> 00:42:00.621
Yeah.

00:42:00.621 --> 00:42:04.463
Plenty to chew on if you decide to go over to Jesse's Patreon and check it out.

00:42:04.463 --> 00:42:06.074
Again, as I said, great Patreon.

00:42:06.074 --> 00:42:20.630
You offer a lot of great commentary when it comes to like the process of each page you get, we almost get like, like a bird's eye view into your sort of, you know, your thought process when it comes to everything, when it comes to like the, the particular title that you're working on there.

00:42:20.630 --> 00:42:26.061
You even give like some alternative titles to Drome before the book.

00:42:26.061 --> 00:42:28.521
I spent a lot of time.

00:42:28.782 --> 00:42:32.641
And Tony, when he said he helped David, it's 100 % true.

00:42:34.021 --> 00:42:36.181
I talked about it on Patreon.

00:42:36.181 --> 00:42:38.284
I talked with Tony about it a lot.

00:42:38.284 --> 00:42:40.088
And he gets a special thanks in this book too.

00:42:40.088 --> 00:42:40.938
Just for the title.

00:42:40.938 --> 00:42:48.719
he's a person I talk with a lot about comics and how they work and stuff.

00:42:48.762 --> 00:42:50.422
Titles are hard for me.

00:42:50.661 --> 00:42:59.206
I think especially with something like Drome where I sort of lean into, I don't know, the form and the structure, it's like, there's rules for the title.

00:43:00.045 --> 00:43:06.509
if you go back digging through Patreon, you can find posts where I'm like, it has to be five letters long.

00:43:06.509 --> 00:43:07.889
Because there are...

00:43:09.036 --> 00:43:11.146
the comic is five panels wide.

00:43:11.686 --> 00:43:15.490
And so it's like, want one letter for those five panels.

00:43:15.490 --> 00:43:15.920
Why?

00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:18.512
It's like, that's how I am.

00:43:20.110 --> 00:43:22.717
It's just how I am, either accepted or not.

00:43:22.782 --> 00:43:26.443
It's like, this is my project.

00:43:27.184 --> 00:43:29.025
I'm doing my thing.

00:43:30.085 --> 00:43:42.202
yeah, so titles, and even with 23rd Street, we had discussions of titles because they, initially, they were worried about drone as a title.

00:43:42.202 --> 00:43:46.155
It's not a word that people recognize.

00:43:46.655 --> 00:43:48.715
It sounds like drone.

00:43:48.876 --> 00:43:51.038
It also auto-corrects to drone.

00:43:51.150 --> 00:43:57.114
ah So if you're writing about it and you're not careful, will switch back to drone.

00:43:57.114 --> 00:44:20.257
But yeah, thinking about the title and how the title affects the narrative, you know, like I feel, I guess I think of, like you said earlier, I felt like one of the things I meant to say, response was sort of, I don't really think I'm like as a writer, as an artist, sort of a what?

00:44:20.257 --> 00:44:21.920
person, like what's the story?

00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:24.280
It's, it's much more of a how.

00:44:24.402 --> 00:44:37.853
And, and so the, to, when you say to like tell the story kind of ruins it, it's like, yeah, because there's none of the how in, me telling you the sequence of events, because it's, it's more than the sequence of events.

00:44:37.853 --> 00:44:41.456
It's like how it's, it's put together and how it's composed.

00:44:41.456 --> 00:44:53.231
And when I, if I say like these characters come into conflict, it's It's shown in a, I'd like to think a unique way.

00:44:53.231 --> 00:45:01.295
so like with the title, I feel that same sort of thing of like the title is part of telling people what it is.

00:45:01.295 --> 00:45:07.378
And I think having a title like drone, I think it's like, wait, what is this?

00:45:07.378 --> 00:45:15.931
Which is, is, is how I want people to start, you know, and you know, there's the Epic of Gilgamesh and it's like the Epic of blah, blah.

00:45:15.931 --> 00:45:17.481
It's like, uh, that.

00:45:17.570 --> 00:45:26.168
that gives it this like, that pushes it in direction that I feel is misleading and limiting to call it the ethic of anything.

00:45:26.168 --> 00:45:30.795
Do you, and that's, is that Epic E P O C H Epic?

00:45:31.574 --> 00:45:33.695
I meant EEPIC.

00:45:33.695 --> 00:45:35.155
But both of that would work too.

00:45:35.155 --> 00:45:41.317
uh But I also feel that would be like a limiting title to put that in, like the ballad or the song.

00:45:41.317 --> 00:45:46.378
So I wanted something that was sort of unfamiliar, but then still has some sort of meaning.

00:45:46.378 --> 00:45:49.278
You know, that's not like random letters.

00:45:49.278 --> 00:45:59.981
Although, repeating me, I did think of just a palindrome of letters that was just visually interesting, like OXVXO.

00:46:04.782 --> 00:46:09.659
There is something to the visual language, Like words can be beautiful too, I think.

00:46:09.659 --> 00:46:10.242
Absolutely.

00:46:10.242 --> 00:46:11.181
Right.

00:46:11.422 --> 00:46:16.764
And sort of, yeah, thinking about like how it would look and then drone.

00:46:16.864 --> 00:46:24.646
think it did come about from talking with Tony and like, and then it does, he and I, neither of us knows who he might've said it.

00:46:24.646 --> 00:46:25.315
I might've said it.

00:46:25.315 --> 00:46:28.673
don't know, but like that it does immediate.

00:46:28.673 --> 00:46:36.268
It's not immediate what it means, but then it like sort of ties into like, you know, hippodrome or velodrome, the sort of this idea of a track or a course.

00:46:36.268 --> 00:46:42.101
Um, and then like palindrome is sort of the the order of things.

00:46:42.101 --> 00:46:53.996
And so it sort of has, you know, it ties into the sort of kind of cosmic cycle of the story, but doesn't reveal too much.

00:46:53.996 --> 00:47:03.021
And I think especially because there's so few words in the book, it's good if it's not too many words in the title as well.

00:47:03.021 --> 00:47:11.427
uh You could have confused a ton of people and maybe even got some like sales from people who were just excited about the halo stuff from the early 2000s.

00:47:11.427 --> 00:47:13.478
You just called it red versus blue.

00:47:13.478 --> 00:47:18.646
And even though even that doesn't correlate with the story at all, people would be like red versus blue.

00:47:18.646 --> 00:47:19.831
I didn't know they were putting a comic about that.

00:47:19.831 --> 00:47:20.634
That's cool.

00:47:20.634 --> 00:47:30.407
Yeah, even with Drome, it just came out in France and apparently that's like a province in France is Drome.

00:47:30.407 --> 00:47:39.677
I think with an accent somewhere, but I've been told about this area in France that also is called Drome.

00:47:40.173 --> 00:47:44.632
I have a couple of the prototypes we'll say or perspective titles.

00:47:44.632 --> 00:47:45.715
I share those?

00:47:45.802 --> 00:47:47.130
I don't remember that in the chart.

00:47:47.130 --> 00:47:48.277
I mean, I remember one.

00:47:48.277 --> 00:47:48.719
Yeah.

00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:50.081
Well, one was primeval.

00:47:50.081 --> 00:47:55.889
That was that's probably the longest one that you were sort of rising was another rising.

00:47:56.030 --> 00:47:57.112
Yeah.

00:47:57.112 --> 00:48:00.115
Epic as we talked about EP OCH.

00:48:00.757 --> 00:48:01.239
Yeah.

00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:03.521
And then Proto was the last one.

00:48:03.521 --> 00:48:04.523
That was another one.

00:48:04.523 --> 00:48:07.213
And for a long time, it was just called Prime.

00:48:07.213 --> 00:48:11.197
That was sort of my working title for a long time.

00:48:11.197 --> 00:48:14.369
Probably like it was Prime for the longest time.

00:48:14.369 --> 00:48:19.612
But that had problems of like one, there's Amazon Prime.

00:48:19.791 --> 00:48:24.914
so like Prime comic book, feel like SEO is awful for that.

00:48:24.914 --> 00:48:30.018
And then there's also a Marvel character called, it was Malibu.

00:48:30.324 --> 00:48:33.956
but now owned by Marvel and they do nothing with called Prime as well.

00:48:34.237 --> 00:48:38.159
And so there's just sort of, I feel like it wasn't unique enough.

00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:43.262
um And so yeah, I prefer Drone to all.

00:48:43.313 --> 00:48:48.713
No, I think Jerome is just conspicuous enough to where you sort of have to wonder what it's about.

00:48:48.713 --> 00:48:59.313
Like you look at the time, like I think you could even just look at the front of the cover and you sort of see the grid and you obviously see, you know, sort of our, would say our two central, would you say that these are our two central characters?

00:48:59.414 --> 00:49:00.233
Yeah.

00:49:00.233 --> 00:49:00.713
Yeah.

00:49:00.713 --> 00:49:03.318
Maybe two driving driving force characters.

00:49:03.318 --> 00:49:04.548
the two driving forces.

00:49:04.548 --> 00:49:08.099
Yeah, I feel the guy with the horns.

00:49:08.920 --> 00:49:10.338
He does a lot.

00:49:10.338 --> 00:49:12.422
I call them black and white.

00:49:12.422 --> 00:49:14.782
Like, they're kind of disinterested.

00:49:14.782 --> 00:49:23.606
Like, they're, they do things, but it's not like, not necessarily even motivated.

00:49:23.606 --> 00:49:24.282
It's there.

00:49:24.282 --> 00:49:27.527
They're sort of this random force.

00:49:27.527 --> 00:49:31.438
But yeah, blue is definitely the driving character.

00:49:31.438 --> 00:49:32.556
I guess.

00:49:32.556 --> 00:49:33.480
Red maybe?

00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:34.311
Red could be.

00:49:34.311 --> 00:49:35.983
I always saw.

00:49:35.983 --> 00:49:44.731
And again, my opinion in this matter maybe doesn't mean as much but red to me sort of felt like a bit of an extension to blue and sort of me.

00:49:44.731 --> 00:49:49.695
And I say her sort of as a loose term, but like their journey, you know, what they're doing.

00:49:49.695 --> 00:49:56.862
But that's not any damnation to read because I think we we get a lot of moments in this book with red that I think maybe hit the hardest of any character possibly.

00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:00.530
Yeah, I think he gets a lot of time.

00:50:00.592 --> 00:50:09.505
It's funny, I think of him as sort of being this like wild character, but he's actually kind of one of the more peaceful characters in the book.

00:50:09.505 --> 00:50:14.739
Like he's actually like very much like a sort of source of calm.

00:50:15.059 --> 00:50:20.619
I feel like despite appearances and you know, things he does.

00:50:20.619 --> 00:50:22.382
Yeah, definitely the purest, right?

00:50:22.382 --> 00:50:38.784
Like, as you said, there's not really any good or bad characters in this book, but I think of all the characters, maybe the purest possibly there is one of the character that we're not talking about at the moment that kind of is just sort of existing within this world and sort of has things happen to them in a certain way.

00:50:38.865 --> 00:50:41.898
Again, I think we're sort of treading on this land of potential spoilers.

00:50:41.898 --> 00:50:45.612
I want to make sure folks go into this nearly blind.

00:50:45.612 --> 00:50:46.952
Jesse, you've been great.

00:50:46.952 --> 00:50:50.445
You've been so you know, gracious with your time here today on the Oblivion Bar.

00:50:50.445 --> 00:50:53.297
So I have one final question for you here before I let you go.

00:50:53.297 --> 00:50:56.920
And it's sort of, again, newly on this idea of finality, right?

00:50:56.920 --> 00:51:05.585
And as we get to the end of this conversation and, you know, folks who have read Drome probably have their own thoughts and theories on that and sort of pertaining to this story.

00:51:05.585 --> 00:51:16.273
But let me ask you, when you finished this, you know, the final page of Drome alone in your studio, can you remember how you felt in that moment when you finished that final page?

00:51:16.974 --> 00:51:17.853
It was interesting.

00:51:17.853 --> 00:51:21.414
It was like this feeling of like, it's done.

00:51:21.414 --> 00:51:36.434
You know, like I did it, but there was also this, a lot of doubt as well, you know, because I was sort of, you know, I did, I had been posting it on Patreon and stuff, but still like kind of alone with it.

00:51:36.434 --> 00:51:45.856
And I also still didn't know like how I was going to get it published or if I was going to be self publishing it because no publisher would touch it or anything like that.

00:51:45.856 --> 00:52:14.382
Yeah, this feeling of, I think more recently, like even though I've sort of been done like the main work on it for probably a year now, I've had this feeling of sort of like release, like slow sort of release of like, kind of the struggle of producing it and like the, and there's the creative pursuits, but also just like, you know, with life of like, had a child.

00:52:14.382 --> 00:52:20.284
I was while I was working on this and, you know, and started in the middle of pandemic and stuff.

00:52:20.284 --> 00:52:27.708
And and also, you know, working on other books, like sort of the discipline that it required to get it done.

00:52:27.708 --> 00:52:30.009
Like it's like been this sort of sort of thing.

00:52:30.009 --> 00:52:42.173
And I think when I first finished and even before it came out, like not knowing how people would respond, you know, because, you know, I've I've worked hard on other books and they've come out and nothing.

00:52:42.173 --> 00:52:50.358
And so kind of this like feeling that I'd accomplished something, but not knowing whether other people would see it.

00:52:50.358 --> 00:53:04.824
I guess that's sort of like the risk of art is like, I feel like I did something, but if you, if no one else knows it, you know, if no one else sees it, if you don't get the acknowledgement, it's like, maybe you didn't do anything.

00:53:04.824 --> 00:53:10.445
Maybe you were just a weird guy who spent a lot of time drawing comic book pages, you know?

00:53:10.445 --> 00:53:22.565
So I feel like with it coming out and the, far as I've seen, I'd actually try not to read reviews, but like really positive response that people have been giving.

00:53:22.565 --> 00:53:29.693
And like, you know, as I've asked the exes, the first, so with it, like all positive response, feels just like really good.

00:53:29.693 --> 00:53:35.726
Like it feels like an accomplishment, um, which I'm not sure if I was at when I actually finished it.

00:53:35.726 --> 00:53:50.385
Well, I'll tell you from my vantage point of sitting over here in oblivion bar land, I can tell you that most of the folks that I respect and people that I admire and people who look at comics from, know more about comics than you, me and everybody else.

00:53:50.786 --> 00:53:54.085
They've been saying that drone has potential to be the best book of 2025.

00:53:54.085 --> 00:54:03.646
And I'm not saying that to put pressure on you or on drone, but I think that that adds a lot of validity to those five years.

00:54:03.829 --> 00:54:14.356
Yeah, whether it is, you know, like, that, people are thinking in those terms is, is pretty humbling in one sense.

00:54:14.356 --> 00:54:20.170
Um, but you know, rewarding at the same time, like it's nice to be talked that way.

00:54:20.170 --> 00:54:25.264
It's, it's, my, my Northern soul is like, Oh, cover up and like hide my face.

00:54:25.264 --> 00:54:31.228
But it feels like people are seeing what I was trying to do and appreciating it.

00:54:31.228 --> 00:54:33.309
And so that it's very rewarding.

00:54:33.965 --> 00:54:34.846
I a lot.

00:54:34.846 --> 00:54:39.005
I, you know, I also, you know, I feel like people have been very positive.

00:54:39.005 --> 00:54:41.746
People have been talking about it and sharing it and stuff.

00:54:41.746 --> 00:54:46.465
And that that's also, it feels very nice.

00:54:46.726 --> 00:54:52.106
We're about to start talking about feelings, which is a struggle for me.

00:54:52.492 --> 00:55:01.755
I don't know if people, the listeners know this or not, but there aren't many creators that we've had here on the show that don't like compliments more than Jesse Lonerkin.

00:55:01.755 --> 00:55:05.822
is like, I'm assuming you like them Jesse, but you don't accept them very well.

00:55:06.382 --> 00:55:16.818
I've been told, I've been told like you're really bad at accepting compliments and you know, few years of therapy and I'll probably be fine.

00:55:16.818 --> 00:55:20.342
But it's, yeah, it's, something I've tried to work out.

00:55:20.342 --> 00:55:22.184
don't know I'm any better at it.

00:55:22.184 --> 00:55:23.652
uh the humbleness though.

00:55:23.652 --> 00:55:34.420
Honestly, it is something that when you, when you are as unique and an excellent at something as you are, when it comes to making comic books and the fact that you can still with a straight face go ash, stop it.

00:55:34.420 --> 00:55:35.731
That's not, that's not real.

00:55:35.731 --> 00:55:38.143
Um, it's, just, it's, it's refreshing.

00:55:38.143 --> 00:55:38.992
say.

00:55:40.653 --> 00:55:53.014
remember a person actually, I used to be an English teacher and a student, an ESL teacher and a student at the end of the year at a class saying, you were a really good teacher.

00:55:53.014 --> 00:55:56.934
And I was like, ah, and she was just like, just say thanks.

00:55:58.813 --> 00:56:00.994
Like I could tell she was annoyed at me.

00:56:00.994 --> 00:56:03.193
She was like, say thanks.

00:56:03.193 --> 00:56:05.550
And I was like, okay, thank you.

00:56:05.550 --> 00:56:13.664
Well that I am, I'm excited to eventually when this thing starts getting some award hype, cause I, I feel that it, think, I think it will.

00:56:13.664 --> 00:56:20.568
Um, I'm excited to see your response to that because it's going to be for my, from my view, it'll be entertaining at the very least.

00:56:20.568 --> 00:56:24.170
Just try to see you stomach some, compliments from people you admire.

00:56:24.170 --> 00:56:25.541
Yeah.

00:56:25.757 --> 00:56:28.827
I mean, yeah, we could talk after.

00:56:30.302 --> 00:56:55.342
I want some dirt on people who have reached out to you and said they enjoy drone but Jesse you have been against such a such a great guest today what a pleasure is to finally get you on the show and again as I've said you know many times throughout this conversation such a huge fan of yours and very very excited to see you again at New York Comic Con excited for you and drone and all the success that you've been seeing here recently and this with you miss Truesdale as well and then of course everything else that you have coming up here in the near future.

00:56:55.342 --> 00:56:56.722
So before I let you go here.

00:56:56.722 --> 00:56:59.456
I just want to tell everyone I have links to drone.

00:56:59.456 --> 00:57:05.985
and a bunch of other works from Jesse in the show notes, as well as, as I mentioned earlier, his excellent Patreon that he hosts over there.

00:57:05.985 --> 00:57:10.668
I would put it up against a lot of other excellent Patreon pages from other creators.

00:57:10.668 --> 00:57:13.552
So Jesse, before I let you go, I'm gonna hand it off to you one more time.

00:57:13.552 --> 00:57:14.802
Is there anything that I missed?

00:57:14.802 --> 00:57:19.829
Anything that you want to sort of broadcast the listeners, how they can follow you and your career, all the other things?

00:57:19.829 --> 00:57:25.166
uh mean, Patreon is great if you can support me there.

00:57:25.166 --> 00:57:28.445
If anyone's going to New York, see me there.

00:57:28.485 --> 00:57:32.606
I'll be in MICE in Boston in December.

00:57:33.545 --> 00:57:35.905
If anyone's in France, I'll be going to St.

00:57:35.905 --> 00:57:38.146
Malo Comets Expo as well.

00:57:38.726 --> 00:57:41.206
But yeah, just thanks.

00:57:41.918 --> 00:57:42.547
There you go, everybody.

00:57:42.547 --> 00:57:44.777
There's your final thanks from Jesse Lonergan here on the show.

00:57:44.777 --> 00:57:56.983
But Jesse, I will absolutely if I can, if your schedule allows it and you have something that you want to eventually talk about or promote or what or if you just want to come back on and chat about comics, I would absolutely love to have you back on the show at some point.

00:57:56.983 --> 00:57:58.003
Oh, anytime.

00:57:58.003 --> 00:57:58.432
Awesome.

00:57:58.432 --> 00:57:59.411
Well, thank you, Jesse, very much.

00:57:59.411 --> 00:58:00.490
We'll talk soon.