MOVIE REVIEW: Shopping For Superman

WEBVTT

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I am vengeance.

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I am the night.

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I am Batman.

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Hey everyone, this is Kevin Conroy, the definitive voice of Batman.

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And you're listening to the Oblivion Bar Podcast.

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you Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host, Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles.

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Welcome to episode 207 of the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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I am Chris Hacker, one of your co-hosts and joining me is my BFF, Nolz.

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That's it.

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Usually, usually there's a like pomp circumstance, a little bit of glitter like thrown in the air, you know.

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You wanted the the flares you wanted the buzz as.

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and my my enraged green friend, Aaron.

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Well, I will say that, you know, generally we sort of have like something to do with that topic, right?

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Like it's usually in reference to the thing.

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You could have said number one on my poll list.

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Well, there you go.

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Joining me this week is number one on my pull list and a series that I buy every variant to my cohost and BFF, Aaron Knowles.

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Oh, my God.

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I like you, everybody.

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Welcome back to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Sort of a normal episode, Aaron, this week.

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We haven't done one of these in a while, right?

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I feel like we haven't done an episode in a while.

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I've been interviewing a lot of folks here on the show.

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So yeah um been doing some solo.

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I've been doing some with you.

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I've been doing some Han.

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And then, yeah, I just got back from a veterans retreat.

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I was gone last week.

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So that's why it was a little bit quiet over at the bar.

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Sure.

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In 35 seconds, tell us about your retch and retreat.

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I just want to know about it because I haven't even heard about it yet.

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just, was a, another great experience with, a group called mission flexible.

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Um, I did find out that the person who runs it, who her name is Lisa Jacob, you might recognize her.

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She is actually, she plays the daughter of Robin Williams character in Mrs.

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Doubtfire.

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She plays the oldest kid of the pilot in, uh, independence day, you know, so like she's pretty famous.

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em so yeah, her name is Lisa Jacob.

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She's, is just amazing.

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She retired from, from Hollywood to self heal from, know, starting being eight years old in Hollywood and like, you know, all of the, the trauma that goes with that.

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And she discovered that she actually had a lot in common with veterans, military veterans.

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And so she just started this program and it's been running up for several years and it's been amazing working with her.

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And this was probably one of the, last for a while of her retreats because she's moving to Canada.

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Um, but you know, there's going to be some work done ahead to figure out how to bring it and keep it going.

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Uh, so it was, it was just a great experience at a place called Cripalu, which is up, uh, in, in the Berkshires of Massachusetts.

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And if you ever want to go somewhere that is life changing spiritually, emotionally, and physically go to Cripalu, I guarantee you will not be disappointed.

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That's cool.

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And I love the community aspect of that, right?

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Like that's, think one of the greatest things about not only being in the military, but also leaving the military is you're often surrounded by folks, veterans, people who in the military, people who are affected possibly, know, military brats and such people who were surrounded by the military.

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you know, speaking of community, Aaron, here's a transition for you.

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This week on the show, we are talking about Shopping for Superman, which is a brand new documentary from West Easton.

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A good friend of the show.

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We've actually had him on the show.

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Had a conversation with him last month here uh in Indianapolis about shopping for Superman, which funny enough, Aaron, I will actually attach to the end of this conversation, us talking about shopping for Superman.

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So.

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You need to address the fact that his name is West...

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Easton.

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Right?

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I'm not the only one that noticed that, right?

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no, yeah, that's, that's a good observation.

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Um, be like being called like north south south.

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Yeah.

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West where we apologize if.

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Northeastern, southwestish.

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That's right.

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So Aaron shopping for Superman will be available to everybody.

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We got an early look, I guess I should say.

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Shout out to Wes and the entire shopping for Superman team.

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They sent us an early screener of the doc so we could talk about it here on the podcast and it'll be available to everybody on demand on September 19th.

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So it'll be available.

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I think the week that you're listening to this conversation should be available.

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Maybe that next week.

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I don't know exactly timetables and all that, but it'll be available on Apple TV plus Google Play, Amazon Prime.

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basically all of those streaming services.

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And funny enough, Aaron, it'll actually be sort of coinciding the release with local comic book day as well, which is September 27th.

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So great time to sort of celebrate this place that we love so much, our local comic book shop.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah, this is a I'm excited to talk about it because I I watched it yesterday Chris I'm I don't know.

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I don't think you told me when you actually watched it, but we have not just like we do Movie reviews, which this is not going to be a movie review.

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This is more discussion about the subject matter and how it kind of resonates with us but I, you know, I don't, don't share how we feel about things and how we feel about what we've just watched until the show.

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So you guys kind of get a fresh perspective of us discussing it.

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So that's one thing I really like about when we do these types of episodes, which is we really don't do a lot like this.

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We do mostly we'll talk about it then give it a rating.

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We don't really just talk about it because we just both wanted to see this.

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Yeah, and I will say that just, guess for the layman, just as a disclaimer, you know, we know Wes because, know, he's much like the rest of the comic book community.

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We all sort of know each other.

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It's a lot smaller than you think it is.

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But I will say that like my thoughts on this movie in no way reflect the fact because of my relationship and our relationship with Wes.

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And I guess that's maybe a spoiler for how I feel about the movie.

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I really liked it.

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But I will say that like just so that everybody knows we're not we're not being paid by like Wes or anybody to like review this movie.

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We legitimately just wanted to talk about it.

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Yeah, no, I would say that this is about the relationship that we all have with our comic book shops.

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Like that's what's important about this is highlighting ah the importance of what local comic book shops are.

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And I think that that itself is a reason, even if you were to not like this, I think it's a reason for people to go because documentaries are interesting no matter what, everybody gets something out of it, you a little bit different.

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You're about that documentary about the mother who was like texting her daughter bad things for like two years about her boyfriend.

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Did you see this on Netflix?

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It was like a new doc.

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I Netflix has totally bastardized the idea of what a doc.

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is the one where like somebody was like messing with the girl and then she finds out it's her mom.

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No, I had no idea.

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Like I remember I saw that like a trailer for something like that.

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I'm just going to adjust my mic real quick.

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I saw a trailer for something like that and then I'm like, they're like, you'll never guess who it was.

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It's a it's a documentary called unknown number over on Netflix and it's wild stuff I won't spoil anything else for everybody, but it's pretty wild and yeah in no way is like Wes and his work here on shopping for Superman Bastardizing the idea of document.

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I use as much more of like the idea of like what a documentary should be right?

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Yeah No, I do.

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happen to, happen to really like the catfish ones.

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You know, those like, I, cause people, people, it's to me, that's like a, it's like a spotlight on just how I don't want to say like desperate or how dumb, like some people can be, but how, dumb our desperation might make us.

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Loneliness is hell of a drug.

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We'll say that, right?

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Like really puts you in a corner.

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uh Anyway, moving on, Aaron, real quick, before we get into shopping for Superman, will you tell the folks really quickly about our upcoming panel just in a couple of weeks here at New York Comic-Con?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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In a couple of weeks, upcoming at New York Comic Con, we're going to have a panel.

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Just kidding.

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Just kidding.

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What is he looking up?

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What are your mom like?

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Go look it up.

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Go come.

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Air go go giggle.

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No, we have a coming panel.

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New York Comic Con.

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It's on Friday the 10th at 1245 p.m.

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That's in the afternoon.

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That's after lunch.

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Grab your lunch.

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Come and join us.

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Hang out with us.

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Come hang out.

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It's in room one C O three.

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That's one Charlie zero three for a live podcast recording with it with with yours truly.

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Obviously the the stupendous, the beautiful.

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Sultry.

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the sultry, the curvaceous, uh, oblivion bar podcast host, as well as our friends, Brad and Lisa from, you know, Brad and Lisa Gullickson from, you know, the comic book couples counseling, uh, bottom Milligan of the short box podcast.

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And I call this a highlight, uh, David Harper of sketched off panel.

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Yeah, he hates when we give him too much credit and put him on a pedestal.

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um bringing them flowers.

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All these folks rock and Aaron.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Very excited for this is going to be super, super fun.

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This is our we didn't do a panel last year, right?

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In New York.

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But the year before that in twenty twenty three, we did.

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I'm going to you finish.

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Okay, so we'll also have goodies to give away.

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Come and see our New York City Comic-Con 2025 exclusive poster and stickers.

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It's an homage of Stan Lee and Mobius's 1988 classic, The Silver Surfer.

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Is it the parable?

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I thought it was just The Silver Surfer.

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It might be Silver Surfer parable.

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And it's by our good friend, Eamon Winkle.

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Yes, shout out to Amen did an incredible job.

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Very, very excited for folks to see this.

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We've actually already posted up like a normal sort of teaser, I guess, on our Instagram and such on social media.

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But as Aaron said, yeah, if you want a sticker or a poster, we'll even have some shirts, not like a ton, but stuff will be handing out uh and we'll have all that at the panel.

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So and as Aaron said, that Virgin holographic variant of the sticker without all the trade dress, you can only get that at the panel, not even our programs.

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Shout out to a program, all the programs and David.

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for helping us out supporting the show and all the good things, but even they won't have access to this very, exclusive sticker.

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So yeah, come join us Friday, October 10th, 12 45 PM room one, Charlie zero tree.

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Is that Yep.

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Yep.

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One.

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You gotta say one.

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Charlie.

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Zero.

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Tree.

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Break.

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Break.

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Break.

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Break a break.

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OK, lastly, we're going to into shopping.

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Superman.

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Last thing we'll say is if you want to support the podcast, as we said, be a program or be like David over on Patreon dot com forward slash oblivion bar pod, you get special access to a bunch of bonus content, oblivion bar content that we will only give out to folks that support us there like the grid, which is our weekly grid grid grid grid grid weekly bonus episode.

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We're actually going to record one right after this because we're late this week.

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As Aaron said, he was off on his retreat, so we have to make it up to the programs today.

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So we'll be doing that.

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my mental health journey.

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uh think the programs are cool with it.

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I'm not cool with it.

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think you need to toughen up.

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You need to rough some dirt on it and be cool.

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know, the programs, they empathize.

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They're definitely, they're empaths, that entire crew and David.

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So yeah, The Grid, you get that each week.

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Bonus episode available every Friday.

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You get special random care packages from Aaron and I.

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We'll just send out things randomly from our own collection.

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Stickers, posters, all the things.

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You get episode transcripts, everything that we're reading from right now to prepare for the show.

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You will get that over on Patreon.

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A lot of cool stuff.

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You'll get actually behind the scenes stuff that we don't even share on a normal feed.

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So like, for instance, when we had tried more on the show a couple of weeks ago, the programs knew about that like a month before we even had them on the show.

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So they get that early access, which is really great.

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You know what find interesting, Chris is looking behind me right now.

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I have our first poster, our second poster, and then on I never planned this, but our third, the third poster is going to have to replace a Galactus poster.

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That's he's basically been a place, a placeholder for Galactus.

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Isn't that interesting?

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Yeah, that is good.

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So Aaron has the Mike de Mundo Galactus eating a planet sort of like it is like a great apple.

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Yeah.

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And so Aaron's gonna be replacing a Galactus poster with our bill and your Galactus.

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I think we should sell everybody in case you haven't seen on social media.

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I am of course Silver Surfer.

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And Aaron is the large world eating Galactus.

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love how last week you said that and Aiman did an incredible job.

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Everybody.

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Absolutely nailed it.

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No notes, incredible work.

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But it was funny when I first showed Aaron, he said, it sort of just looks like Galactus, but with a five o'clock shadow, which I understand, but it totally, I think if you look at it, he nailed your features really, really well.

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So seven day free trial available for free.

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You just try it out, see if you like it.

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Listen to Aaron, I shenanigans over on the grid.

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And then if you don't like it, you're more than welcome to peace on out.

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We don't blame you.

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So.

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Not for everybody.

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Everybody's cup of tea.

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Select group of folks.

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So patreon.com forward slash oblivion bar pod.

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It's also in the show notes.

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Aaron, are you ready?

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You ready to talk about shopping?

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Do it.

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All right.

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Let's go ahead and talk about West Easton's shopping for Superman.

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This episode is brought to you by Endless Comics Games and Cards.

00:13:43.370 --> 00:13:51.467
Whether you are a dedicated Wednesday warrior or looking for the latest drop of TCG and sports cards, Endless Comics Games and Cards has you covered.

00:13:51.467 --> 00:14:08.652
While Endless is known for their large collection of both single issue comics and library of graphic novels, not to mention their monthly comic book club, they also stay fully stocked with singles and sealed product for Magic the Gathering, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh! and many others.

00:14:08.652 --> 00:14:09.663
What's the best part?

00:14:09.663 --> 00:14:15.860
You can set up your pull list online at endlesscgc.com and they will send your new books to you.

00:14:15.970 --> 00:14:23.456
So head on over to endlesscgc.com or check them out on social media at endlesscgc.

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Let's talk about shopping for Superman.

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Again, the brand new documentary from West Eastern.

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I guess mild spoiler warning.

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We'll be talking about some things, but in reality, most of the as most documentaries are, you know, it's mostly just sort of a culmination or a overview of a thing you really like with some fun facts and and all that.

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Right.

00:14:59.197 --> 00:15:00.429
And you're smiling right now.

00:15:00.429 --> 00:15:01.614
What's going on?

00:15:01.614 --> 00:15:03.354
It's like it's a documentary.

00:15:03.354 --> 00:15:05.494
you can't really like, there's nothing to spoil.

00:15:05.494 --> 00:15:11.135
Like there's no like, we're going to research the, like, I'm just going to let you know by the end of this movie, you'll be, you'll have learned some things.

00:15:11.135 --> 00:15:14.336
I didn't know that the golden age was in the 50s through the 60s.

00:15:14.336 --> 00:15:15.306
Spoiler alert.

00:15:15.306 --> 00:15:16.386
I learned something.

00:15:16.386 --> 00:15:30.893
um No, it's like, it's, it's all stuff that it's like, this is all public knowledge, but it's like, like to have it kind of presented in this way is just that's, that's why documentaries are so awesome is because there's just so much research.

00:15:30.893 --> 00:15:39.136
You hear it from the people who are involved in it, who are around it, who knew the subject matters and all, and know, et cetera, going deeper into it.

00:15:39.136 --> 00:15:49.250
And I think that that's what's really That's what's really so important about this is you hear from the mouths of the people who were directly involved with these things.

00:15:49.250 --> 00:15:50.500
And so I'll just say this.

00:15:50.500 --> 00:15:56.234
ah I don't necessarily think that shopping for Superman was the best title.

00:15:56.234 --> 00:15:58.835
we're already going into some hard feedback.

00:15:59.005 --> 00:16:04.019
I only say that because I like these I get it.

00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:06.635
I just feel like, you know, and I don't have a better idea.

00:16:06.635 --> 00:16:07.147
Like that's thing.

00:16:07.147 --> 00:16:09.472
It's like, why do you bring up a problem that you don't have a solution to?

00:16:09.472 --> 00:16:10.942
You know, like I hate when that happens.

00:16:10.942 --> 00:16:17.333
But like, you know, the entire time I'm like, okay, because there's like one part that's really about like shopping for super.

00:16:17.333 --> 00:16:18.969
It'll buy one superman in this dock.

00:16:18.969 --> 00:16:19.967
It's fake news.

00:16:19.967 --> 00:16:27.683
Yeah, they're not like they didn't buy superman one christmas gift in this okay, like what who are you shopping for?

00:16:27.683 --> 00:16:28.504
He does not real.

00:16:28.504 --> 00:16:31.767
Um, so for me that like I thought it was really good.

00:16:31.767 --> 00:16:39.452
I just I felt like I don't know I just felt like the the the title didn't really For me didn't mesh a whole lot with the content of it.

00:16:39.452 --> 00:16:41.658
You know what mean?

00:16:41.674 --> 00:16:42.315
Absolutely.

00:16:42.315 --> 00:16:42.658
Absolutely.

00:16:42.658 --> 00:16:55.918
If you're just trying to get it into the fucking people's feeds nailed it Yeah, when I was doing a lot of research for this and putting together a transcript, every time I put in, put in shopping for Superman, it would just bring up James Gunn Superman, just all the things about, about Superman.

00:16:55.918 --> 00:17:06.173
Well, that's other thing is I went to like look for the trailer and I went to my my Amazon like remote and I was like, you know, like, hey, blah, blah, blah, you know, hey, bitch, like shopping for Superman trailer.

00:17:06.173 --> 00:17:09.173
And it literally played the James Gunn like Superman trailer.

00:17:09.173 --> 00:17:10.434
Yeah.

00:17:10.434 --> 00:17:13.675
My initial thoughts are this is wonderful.

00:17:13.675 --> 00:17:17.479
I honestly, it's just such a, I feel seen Aaron.

00:17:17.479 --> 00:17:18.689
I actually texted Wes after this.

00:17:18.689 --> 00:17:21.421
was like, feel, I feel seen, I feel heard.

00:17:21.421 --> 00:17:21.750
Right?

00:17:21.750 --> 00:17:27.163
Like this is, if there's like a documentary about a thing I love and it's also such a niche thing, right?

00:17:27.163 --> 00:17:29.578
It's a niche thing within a niche fandom, right?

00:17:29.578 --> 00:17:37.509
Cause there, there are probably millions of comic readers out there who have maybe either never been to a comic shop or don't often go to a comic shop.

00:17:37.509 --> 00:17:38.388
Right.

00:17:38.390 --> 00:17:48.009
But I think Preserving the local comic book shop, the brick and mortar place that we all go every Wednesday to pick up our books must be preserved.

00:17:48.071 --> 00:17:50.200
has to stick, it has to be around.

00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:54.016
Like how you said, know, heard and seen, like that's kind of how you felt from this.

00:17:54.016 --> 00:17:55.327
Like I felt inspired.

00:17:55.327 --> 00:18:01.909
Like the first thing that I wanted to do after I finished watching this thing was call you up and be like, when are we starting our own shop?

00:18:01.909 --> 00:18:06.810
uh Mark Aaron, as we've learned from this documentary margins are tight.

00:18:06.810 --> 00:18:09.923
uh They're very twit, you know?

00:18:09.963 --> 00:18:19.199
So I hear that, but I also feel like, uh much like this show, you and I, have more, like we have more to us than Just Comics.

00:18:19.199 --> 00:18:25.722
And I think stores that do more than Just Comics are really viable because that's when you go into like, what do do?

00:18:25.722 --> 00:18:29.335
When you go into like a comic shop, you see way more than Just Comics.

00:18:29.335 --> 00:18:33.804
You see models, you see Pokemon, you see Yu-Gi-Oh, all this stuff.

00:18:33.804 --> 00:18:36.188
And those are all different ways of bringing in revenue.

00:18:36.188 --> 00:18:49.448
And I think that you and I, don't know, for some reason, it just, it made me feel like I would love to do a journey like that, like to, go through that experience of what these shop owners and people talked about with my best friend.

00:18:49.473 --> 00:18:51.474
You have to do it for the love of the game.

00:18:51.634 --> 00:19:00.779
Like these folks that, you know, Wes talks to during this doc, know, you've got like Chuck Rosansky from Mile High as one person, Joe Field.

00:19:00.779 --> 00:19:04.882
You even have like some creators, obviously, like Jim Shooter, Jergens was in this.

00:19:04.882 --> 00:19:05.212
Higgins.

00:19:05.212 --> 00:19:06.542
Kyle Higgins was in there at the end.

00:19:06.542 --> 00:19:08.744
I love how Chris Claremont is in for like a second.

00:19:08.744 --> 00:19:12.406
He just goes, 1990 happened and then it all went to shit.

00:19:12.406 --> 00:19:19.180
And if you know anything about Chris Claremont, you know that while I think he's a pretty magical man overall and he created some incredible comics.

00:19:19.210 --> 00:19:21.790
over his 50 plus year career.

00:19:21.790 --> 00:19:24.373
He's kind of a negative Nancy nowadays, everybody.

00:19:24.373 --> 00:19:27.494
And it's just funny that like he kind of is.

00:19:27.494 --> 00:19:29.605
He's like really he's a wonderful curmudgeon.

00:19:29.605 --> 00:19:29.865
Right.

00:19:29.865 --> 00:19:32.877
Like he'll he'll talk to you about all of this incredible stuff.

00:19:32.877 --> 00:19:36.018
And then at the end, he'll go, yeah, and I didn't get paid for any of it.

00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:40.040
So but this being what you're saying there.

00:19:40.040 --> 00:19:41.122
Yeah, I agree.

00:19:41.122 --> 00:19:44.963
We told you and I we contain multitudes like life of Chuck.

00:19:45.584 --> 00:19:51.231
But I think that that's sort of the future for this industry.

00:19:51.231 --> 00:19:59.657
think like the normal comic book shop, as we know it today, brick and mortar, seven bookcases, a register, that's it.

00:19:59.699 --> 00:20:03.162
That's not going to exist, I think, in any type of normalcy going forward.

00:20:03.162 --> 00:20:18.250
It's going to be, hey, this is a cafe and it's kind of a bar and we do stand up on Tuesdays and Thursdays and we have a book club on Mondays and it's also a comic shop and it's also a bookstore and like it's going to have like all these different sort of...

00:20:18.250 --> 00:20:19.405
multi-faceted.

00:20:19.405 --> 00:20:24.705
Because as you said earlier, is a community, the end of the day, it's a community center, right?

00:20:24.705 --> 00:20:29.705
And in a world where like community is getting so sparse, we're all so glued to our phones.

00:20:29.705 --> 00:20:36.905
And I'll be the first to admit that I am on my phone way too much, especially in today's sort of climate, right?

00:20:36.905 --> 00:20:41.105
You kind of want to stay informed and sort of prepare for what you're in for.

00:20:41.145 --> 00:20:44.986
And I find myself often like, man, I hate the fact that I'm sitting here staring at my phone.

00:20:44.986 --> 00:20:45.804
That's a lot of people.

00:20:45.804 --> 00:20:56.923
Yeah, I need you to give me the signal once we get to the point in the discussion where I can just kind of like go well into like all of my thoughts about this documentary.

00:20:56.923 --> 00:20:57.644
Ready?

00:20:57.644 --> 00:20:58.205
Yeah.

00:20:58.205 --> 00:20:59.006
Go.

00:20:59.006 --> 00:20:59.987
Okay.

00:21:00.007 --> 00:21:01.577
I mean, I really, I really did love it.

00:21:01.577 --> 00:21:08.894
I absolutely loved it because, you know, again, bringing up the fact that I am of us to the newer reader of comics.

00:21:08.894 --> 00:21:20.377
uh Everybody just because you don't know over the last five years of the Abilene bar, every time Aaron talks about a comic goes as the new reader, Aaron, you will forever be the new reader.

00:21:20.377 --> 00:21:23.198
As long as you're with me in a room or on this podcast.

00:21:23.557 --> 00:21:24.674
That's the new reader.

00:21:24.674 --> 00:21:26.960
That's the joke! Okay.

00:21:27.905 --> 00:21:29.489
It's a running gag.

00:21:29.549 --> 00:21:31.309
ah Inside jokes, we have them.

00:21:31.309 --> 00:21:39.193
uh Sorry, it's been a few days since I've gotten to laugh with my with my best friend.

00:21:39.193 --> 00:21:40.555
I missed your smell.

00:21:42.175 --> 00:21:46.069
No, I loved so you kind of brought me into comics.

00:21:46.069 --> 00:21:48.539
I'll just say like you introduced me to comics.

00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:55.863
You brought me into the idea of reading and collecting and you showed me that there's so much like beauty in these books.

00:21:56.064 --> 00:22:10.204
And I loved how this documentary really showed every angle of what comics are, what they were, and what they can be to many different types of people.

00:22:10.204 --> 00:22:11.885
It was inspirational.

00:22:11.885 --> 00:22:13.287
It was emotional.

00:22:13.287 --> 00:22:15.347
It was informational.

00:22:15.347 --> 00:22:22.492
There's so much to this movie that I honestly, this is one of those documentaries where like, I would recommend this.

00:22:22.492 --> 00:23:00.109
I think this needs to be like a poster in every comic shop that says like, hey, shopping for Superman release now, go watch it now because This is really where people can feel inspired to go to the comic shop because if you have never been to a comic shop where you feel like you're a part of the family or you're welcomed in there or people care about what you want to read or collect or find, one of the best feelings that I have, I can remember in recent years was walking into my comic shop and the guy, like the guy behind the counter, uh like people caring enough about what I enjoy.

00:23:00.162 --> 00:23:03.201
to put stuff aside for me before I even ask.

00:23:03.201 --> 00:23:08.307
I want to be very deliberate about like naming comic shops because I've had many local comic shops I know you have as well.

00:23:08.307 --> 00:23:09.624
Yeah, comic shop was that for you?

00:23:09.624 --> 00:23:17.017
So the first one was uh Rick's Comic City in Clarksville, Nevada, or Clarksville, Nevada, Clarksville, Tennessee.

00:23:17.017 --> 00:23:22.779
uh that was really the first time that I experienced that.

00:23:22.779 --> 00:23:23.910
And it was amazing.

00:23:23.910 --> 00:23:25.721
It was really, really amazing.

00:23:25.721 --> 00:23:31.894
And then here in Brooklyn was like Galaxy Collectibles uh here in Brooklyn.

00:23:31.894 --> 00:23:36.705
And so my friend John, who I walked in there, uh so John and Ming.

00:23:36.791 --> 00:23:41.355
who both worked there, they both like would put stuff aside for me or they'd have like stuff in the back.

00:23:41.355 --> 00:23:43.428
They'd be like, hey, I got some stuff you wanna check it out real quick.

00:23:43.428 --> 00:24:00.040
And so they knew they even put stuff to like aside for Carly, for my wife, which again, when you have somebody that like genuinely cares about what you collect, what you love, what you wanna read, gets to know your taste, your style, that is on the precipice of friendship.

00:24:00.080 --> 00:24:01.165
And that's like...

00:24:01.165 --> 00:24:08.654
you know, again, that's why people go to like bars, I think, because they have that familiar feeling where they can open up and be free and, people know what they enjoy.

00:24:08.654 --> 00:24:09.015
I don't know.

00:24:09.015 --> 00:24:09.760
I it's hard.

00:24:09.760 --> 00:24:22.359
could, I could probably say it a million different ways, but that is truly what makes comic shops unique is that you can walk in there passionate about one thing, but also be introduced to a million other things.

00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:27.795
The sense of community, again, as we said a moment ago, there is a camaraderie that goes along with loving a thing.

00:24:27.795 --> 00:24:51.488
It's also why I love going to Comic-Con as well, but I comic shops in general, because Aaron, I think I know this about you, correct me if I'm wrong, I definitely know this about me, is that part of the reason why I wanted us to start this podcast in April of 2020 to talk about comics and movies and television and anime and video games and nerd culture is because in my normal life, the Chris Hacker that walks around and says things and wears...

00:24:51.488 --> 00:25:23.665
nice pants and like just as a normal human being on the front face doesn't know no one knows that I really love Spider-man or that I have a silver surfer tattoo or that I've read saga of swamp thing every year since 2009 no one knows that right the reason why we created this show and the reason why I continue to go to the local comic shop definitely every week but generally on on Wednesdays new comic book day is because it's that sense of community it's a it's a safe haven it's this place that you go where you know everybody it's like cheers where everybody knows your name.

00:25:23.665 --> 00:25:24.776
Yeah.

00:25:24.776 --> 00:25:29.828
It's like that place that you go where you guys can share in this love.

00:25:29.828 --> 00:25:36.321
And I was talking to, I've had, again, as you said, multiple local comic book shops of my life.

00:25:36.321 --> 00:25:44.968
You know, my first one was downtown comics in Indianapolis, which funny enough later here in this episode, you'll hear us talk to West East and the director of shopping for Superman.

00:25:44.968 --> 00:25:52.611
That was at a downtown comics location, the actual downtown location in Indianapolis, but Mine was uh on the West side, the West side of Indianapolis.

00:25:52.611 --> 00:25:57.632
Then it became the fancy shop, know, long time sponsor of the show there at the beginning in St.

00:25:57.632 --> 00:25:58.762
Louis, Missouri, St.

00:25:58.762 --> 00:25:59.913
Charles specifically.

00:25:59.913 --> 00:26:03.374
And then, you know, here recently it was Majest Comics in Greenwood, Indiana.

00:26:03.374 --> 00:26:08.516
And then, you know, even up to like, and here recently it's been Comic Carnival here on the North side of Indianapolis.

00:26:08.516 --> 00:26:12.416
I try to spread the wealth because I have a lot of money to give, you know, so.

00:26:14.196 --> 00:26:17.038
I think it's important that we like very deliberately.

00:26:17.195 --> 00:26:18.306
And I'm going to steal.

00:26:18.306 --> 00:26:30.930
I've like completely adopted and stolen this saying from good friend of the show and comic writer journalist over at the Beat, Zach Quaintance, will actually have him on the show here soon to talk about his uh new Kickstarter that he's releasing here soon.

00:26:31.190 --> 00:26:42.472
He has the saying that I've completely fallen head over heels for, which is that comics demand our participation if we want it to exist in the form that we have it currently.

00:26:42.472 --> 00:26:44.733
And Wes is doing this with shopping Superman and Aaron.

00:26:44.733 --> 00:26:46.483
We're doing this with the Oblivion Bar.

00:26:46.509 --> 00:26:52.009
our friends, Brian Leaser, doing this with a couple of counseling, David's doing with off panel, Botter with short box, so on and so forth.

00:26:52.009 --> 00:26:59.690
If you want this thing to exist and you want healthy, exciting, entertaining conversation about this thing we love, we have to do it.

00:26:59.690 --> 00:27:02.410
We can't expect anyone else to carry the torch.

00:27:02.410 --> 00:27:03.910
So that's long winded.

00:27:03.910 --> 00:27:09.470
that's when I watched this movie, it just brought up all these warm feelings.

00:27:09.470 --> 00:27:11.710
It took him 10 plus years to make this documentary.

00:27:11.710 --> 00:27:23.722
I don't know if that's said anywhere, but he talks about it in our conversation that He started this documentary in the early 2010s and is just now finishing it after a Kickstarter as well, which humble brag I am a uh contributor of.

00:27:23.722 --> 00:27:25.844
But like it took him a long time to do this.

00:27:25.844 --> 00:27:27.275
But gosh, is it was it not worth it?

00:27:27.275 --> 00:27:29.145
This again, as you said, totally agree.

00:27:29.145 --> 00:27:29.866
I'll echo it.

00:27:29.866 --> 00:27:34.894
This should be required watching for every new employee hired at every comic shop across the entire nation.

00:27:34.894 --> 00:27:37.895
100 % the amount of knowledge that goes into this.

00:27:37.895 --> 00:27:46.332
the other thing that was really fun about it was as I'm watching this, like I am creating places on, on Google maps that I want to visit.

00:27:46.332 --> 00:27:52.286
Like I'm creating a list of comic shops that I want to go to, you know, mile high comics in Denver, Colorado.

00:27:52.286 --> 00:27:57.539
I mean, one, one thing that's kind of what was kind of cool was Midtown comics here in New York was featured in it as well.

00:27:57.539 --> 00:28:00.531
Like there's just some places that you just, don't know.

00:28:00.531 --> 00:28:09.862
I think it's, I think it's awesome to know that there are comic shops and it's so sad because there's it's awesome to know that there are comic shops that have stood the test of time.

00:28:09.862 --> 00:28:21.325
It's also very sad and heartbreaking heartbreaking that there are comic shops that just will not make it through certain things like when COVID happened, you know, if something else happens, there's gonna be shops that just will not make it.

00:28:21.325 --> 00:28:22.954
And that's very, very unfortunate.

00:28:22.954 --> 00:28:42.307
But I think that it's important for us to as as members of the community to really pursue going to these places and celebrating what they've done for us as the readership, but also creators, know, they're, they're Chris, you've known creators that have worked at the comic shops with you.

00:28:42.307 --> 00:28:50.279
And it is so cool to know that, you know, it's the humble beginnings for creators, but it's also the humble beginnings for these shops.

00:28:50.279 --> 00:29:03.549
And again, I am just, I am so inspired by this documentary that it makes me, it makes me really miss that, that those experiences like at the comic shop and you know, I don't know.

00:29:03.549 --> 00:29:07.109
There's just like, it brought up so many warm feelings and memories and things.

00:29:07.109 --> 00:29:15.009
And also, again, also was just super interesting because I had no idea that people had gone out and really like that bought, bought comics like this.

00:29:15.009 --> 00:29:23.670
Like at one point somebody in the, in the documentary said that there was a customer that came in that bought 300,000 copies of the death of Superman.

00:29:24.003 --> 00:29:26.430
They want to pay for their kids college.

00:29:26.430 --> 00:29:39.782
College fun and then the person was like that's not gonna happen buddy So it's like interesting, you know, and so there's just so many little different tidbits of information in this that was Joe Field from Flying Colors Comics.

00:29:41.943 --> 00:29:42.733
That's a good.

00:29:42.733 --> 00:29:44.513
The image boom was a wild time, everybody.

00:29:44.513 --> 00:29:51.786
And like you said, at that time, I think I remember the documentary saying that was about 10,000 ish comic shops existing throughout the U.S.

00:29:51.786 --> 00:30:04.521
And then after the comic, after the image boom, because and I think they make a very deliberate point in the doc that the death of Superman nine weeks after the death of Superman by Dan Juergens and I'm spacing the artist now off top my head, but nine weeks, they bring him back.

00:30:04.521 --> 00:30:04.913
Yeah.

00:30:04.913 --> 00:30:07.241
And people lost their fucking minds.

00:30:07.241 --> 00:30:08.886
They were like, I'm done with this.

00:30:08.886 --> 00:30:10.669
I'm done with this.

00:30:13.112 --> 00:30:15.295
But and I get that to a certain extent.

00:30:15.295 --> 00:30:15.535
Right.

00:30:15.535 --> 00:30:16.025
And then I'll see.

00:30:16.025 --> 00:30:21.869
Like you said, Covid this industry is like I think and I might be misquoting.

00:30:21.869 --> 00:30:23.930
September 14th.

00:30:23.930 --> 00:30:25.009
Go ahead Chris.

00:30:25.515 --> 00:30:42.296
I think it was Jack Kirby said that comics right now in this exact moment that you and I are talking here and the people are listening to it is the most popular that it will ever be and it is all it is also the closest that it's ever been to the to the brink of destruction Mark this time 251 September 14th.

00:30:42.296 --> 00:30:44.496
the seconds on that one just to be really, really.

00:30:44.569 --> 00:31:01.025
Say that because while I'm watching this movie, that's exactly that's exactly what was going through my head the entire time is we every time we converse about comic shops the thing that's always Very it's the elephant in the room.

00:31:01.025 --> 00:31:22.361
It's the elephant in every comic book aisle Okay, it is that comics are always on the precipice of failure and it's it's so unfortunate but like watching this, really brought the point home that the comic industry is not only its greatest advocate, but it's also its own worst enemy.

00:31:22.827 --> 00:31:29.869
Yeah, and its biggest enemies are, they're aptly named Marvel Comics and Detective Comics.

00:31:30.132 --> 00:31:35.382
They are often the ones like leading the charge of the destruction of this industry we love so much.

00:31:35.382 --> 00:31:57.540
It is so, it must be like, it must be so hard for the, you know, publishers to look back or to look at themselves or look in the mirror or look at a mirror that's facing the entire comics industry and be going like, we're shooting ourselves or we're we're fucking ourselves because like, sucks because, but that's the way that the world works though.

00:31:57.540 --> 00:32:02.173
How do you bring more money in without innovating?

00:32:02.173 --> 00:32:04.374
How do you make an industry grow?

00:32:04.374 --> 00:32:08.900
without creating a new arm of it, without creating a new aspect of collecting.

00:32:08.900 --> 00:32:13.432
How do you make it grow without potentially killing yourself?

00:32:13.432 --> 00:32:14.353
which is what we saw in the 90s.

00:32:14.353 --> 00:32:20.013
That was like the precipice of like blind bags and foil covers and multiple variants.

00:32:20.013 --> 00:32:22.933
trading cards, that stuff.

00:32:22.933 --> 00:32:39.872
trying to, again, it's like, hey, we want to succeed, so let's do something new and interesting, but that's taking away from our bottom line also because yeah, people only have so much amount of money to spend and we're taking away our own money by creating more products.

00:32:39.872 --> 00:32:40.461
Right.

00:32:40.461 --> 00:32:50.461
I think again, speaking on what Joe Field was saying in that moment, talking about Death Superman, is that like people were buying, this is so crazy to me that people thought that this was an actual thing they were going to be able to do.

00:32:50.461 --> 00:32:56.640
Like people buying boxes, pallets of Death of Superman and X-Men number one and Spawn number one and Savage Dragon, all these things.

00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:00.872
You have to understand in the world of collecting, this is like a tale's oldest time for everybody.

00:33:00.872 --> 00:33:04.022
So if you're hearing this, just know don't fucking buy variants.

00:33:04.022 --> 00:33:04.403
Okay.

00:33:04.403 --> 00:33:06.402
You know, the one in fifties, the one in one hundred's.

00:33:06.402 --> 00:33:07.586
Don't fucking buy them.

00:33:07.586 --> 00:33:08.816
Okay, and I'm talking I'm Aaron.

00:33:08.816 --> 00:33:09.567
I'm talking to myself as well.

00:33:09.567 --> 00:33:10.799
I'm looking Rephrases.

00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:11.211
I'm sorry.

00:33:11.211 --> 00:33:12.374
Rephrases.

00:33:12.374 --> 00:33:13.405
Do not buy.

00:33:13.405 --> 00:33:16.579
Do not spec ratio covers.

00:33:17.623 --> 00:33:21.670
Do not spec ratio covers if you're trying to make money off of them.

00:33:21.670 --> 00:33:22.440
Yeah.

00:33:22.509 --> 00:33:24.013
Buy them, them because you love them.

00:33:24.013 --> 00:33:26.294
Yeah, exactly buy them because you want to collect them.

00:33:26.294 --> 00:33:34.713
You love the art Do not buy it because you hope because that's the thing that's the same thing like I go online and I look at I'm like right I'll tell you this here's the perfect example.

00:33:34.713 --> 00:33:53.701
Okay, I go to eBay I'm looking at the new Imperial covers that have she Hulk on it the Yes, there is a she Hulk virgin variant that you can pre-order that's gonna be graded Okay, it is 199 98 That is insane That is insane.

00:33:53.701 --> 00:33:54.589
You don't know the book is good.

00:33:54.589 --> 00:33:55.991
You don't know the book is bad.

00:33:56.031 --> 00:33:57.032
Whatever.

00:33:57.053 --> 00:34:07.602
If I buy that book also, like just loose, maybe a hundred dollars, maybe, somewhere who knows the week, the next week when they're still available, they're to go down to 50, 60 bucks.

00:34:07.602 --> 00:34:11.175
And it's like, so why buy them that expensive that early on?

00:34:11.175 --> 00:34:17.771
Because you think, I mean, yes, every once in a while they might, was it 1 % of them are going to go like absolutely bald.

00:34:17.771 --> 00:34:19.023
be less than one percent.

00:34:19.023 --> 00:34:22.795
Like, it's to be like the the right.

00:34:22.795 --> 00:34:25.686
The one that comes to mind immediately is like Edge of Spider-Verse number two.

00:34:25.686 --> 00:34:32.769
First appearance of Spider-Gwen, like something like that where you pre-ordered the variant and it worked out because Spider-Gwen became this huge thing.

00:34:32.769 --> 00:34:33.170
Yeah.

00:34:33.170 --> 00:34:39.264
But that's one moment in a sea of variants from every title across every single publisher.

00:34:39.264 --> 00:34:39.893
Right.

00:34:39.893 --> 00:34:43.385
But sorry to go back to my point that what I saying is like, no, you're fine.

00:34:43.385 --> 00:34:44.416
And that's a good point to make.

00:34:44.416 --> 00:34:48.413
Is that like, yeah, if you're to buy variants, of course, I buy variants like weekly.

00:34:48.653 --> 00:34:54.418
But like I do it because I want a Daniel Warren Johnson cover or I really want a Rose Besh cover or a Jen Bartel cover.

00:34:54.538 --> 00:34:57.661
Don't buy them for spec in order for something to be worth anything.

00:34:57.661 --> 00:35:00.342
Asset first be worth nothing.

00:35:01.103 --> 00:35:13.391
Like the reason Amazing Fantasy 15 is worth so much money besides the fact that it's the first appearance of Spider-Man is because A it was once 15 cents and B they made a million of them and everyone read it and threw it away.

00:35:13.391 --> 00:35:16.023
That's why it's worth so much money now, you know.

00:35:16.023 --> 00:35:19.934
Just a real quick uh side quest.

00:35:19.934 --> 00:35:20.795
Yeah.

00:35:20.795 --> 00:35:21.255
Okay.

00:35:21.255 --> 00:35:26.427
So uh I'm not going to go into the news or the reasoning behind it, but you probably know this.

00:35:26.427 --> 00:35:32.829
They've canceled and recalled all copies unsold of Red Hood number one.

00:35:32.829 --> 00:35:34.018
Yeah.

00:35:34.059 --> 00:35:37.539
That was released this past Wednesday.

00:35:37.539 --> 00:35:43.161
I'll let you, the customer, the listener, et cetera, go back and look into why.

00:35:43.202 --> 00:35:47.603
But I went into a comic shop on my way back from my veteran retreat.

00:35:47.603 --> 00:35:48.485
Okay.

00:35:48.485 --> 00:35:52.726
And I said, Hey, do you happen to have any copies of that Red Hood number one?

00:35:52.726 --> 00:35:54.829
He goes, are you trying to spec it?

00:35:54.829 --> 00:35:57.070
And I'm like, and I was like, fuck no.

00:35:57.070 --> 00:36:00.561
I am a, I used to cause really is red hood.

00:36:00.561 --> 00:36:01.672
I can love Jason Todd.

00:36:01.672 --> 00:36:02.552
love Red Hood.

00:36:02.552 --> 00:36:08.295
So for me, it was like, no, I just, was hoping that I could get a copy of it before it all got sent back.

00:36:08.335 --> 00:36:16.132
However, do your own research because Also, I did want the cover, but also I went back and I researched.

00:36:16.132 --> 00:36:21.998
There's a reason why this book was pulled and it was because somebody said some things or posted some things that should not have been said.

00:36:21.998 --> 00:36:23.197
That's as far as I'm going to go.

00:36:23.197 --> 00:36:29.322
But also do the research because just because you might want to support this person or you think that it's going to go wild.

00:36:29.322 --> 00:36:32.465
People say dumb shit about everything.

00:36:33.505 --> 00:36:34.277
We see it all weekly.

00:36:34.277 --> 00:36:38.530
So I'm just saying, do your research before you buy something just because somebody said some dumb shit.

00:36:38.722 --> 00:36:54.887
This is the Gretchen Felker Martin series everybody just so you're knowing what we're talking about here the what was going to be issue one of Red Hood over at DC of one of the first solo story arcs in several years for Red Hood.

00:36:55.349 --> 00:36:55.769
Motherfucker.

00:36:55.769 --> 00:36:59.409
Has he gotten a normal, like, he had like a red hood in the outlaws.

00:36:59.809 --> 00:37:02.469
He obviously had like the Judd Winnick red.

00:37:02.469 --> 00:37:03.510
We're way off topic, everybody.

00:37:03.510 --> 00:37:04.050
We apologize.

00:37:04.050 --> 00:37:05.349
We're to get back to shopping for Superman.

00:37:05.349 --> 00:37:06.829
But I'm trying to think of like those.

00:37:06.829 --> 00:37:10.192
conversations though, that you would have at a comic book shop.

00:37:10.192 --> 00:37:17.996
And this is what would really drive the dis again, discussion is the foundation of democracy in my opinion.

00:37:18.197 --> 00:37:19.559
And don't quote me on that.

00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:20.969
I don't know if somebody said that before.

00:37:20.969 --> 00:37:31.016
I'm just saying discussion and debate and the willingness to have a conversation with somebody that is the whole foundation of democracy.

00:37:31.016 --> 00:37:36.362
It's being able to come to a compromise and understand the people who are in the discussion.

00:37:36.362 --> 00:37:47.371
Now, that's the beauty about comic shops is because you can have fake fucking people driving real fucking conversations, deep ones.

00:37:47.371 --> 00:37:51.134
oh And I think that that's so important.

00:37:51.134 --> 00:37:52.574
I think that's so vital.

00:37:52.574 --> 00:37:58.681
again, that's to round back to segue back to, you know, shopping for Superman.

00:37:58.681 --> 00:38:09.572
That's what this movie, this documentary points out is that we can have these conversations over fake fucking characters and still be friends and still shop at the store.

00:38:09.572 --> 00:38:16.516
I don't have to agree with everything you say because the same thing like can Superman beat Goku's ass?

00:38:16.516 --> 00:38:19.677
That's a conversation you're gonna have in a comic shop.

00:38:20.153 --> 00:38:20.554
Right.

00:38:20.554 --> 00:38:21.434
Yeah.

00:38:21.534 --> 00:38:27.876
There's everybody, if you can, if you're not driving, please close your eyes and let me just describe one of my favorite sort of moments.

00:38:27.876 --> 00:38:30.336
And Aaron, this will lead us into a question I have for you as well.

00:38:30.876 --> 00:38:35.869
There's this rare moment that can only happen at comic shops where you go in there.

00:38:35.869 --> 00:38:38.559
Hey, names, last name's hacker.

00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:39.798
Can I get my pool?

00:38:39.940 --> 00:38:41.599
You've got two people up at the cash register.

00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:43.581
Somebody is paying.

00:38:43.581 --> 00:38:48.842
Another guy is just sort of looking at the wall behind the counter with all the high price books, all the things, right?

00:38:48.940 --> 00:38:54.652
And then all of a sudden someone says, oh saga, the fourth hardcover is coming out here soon.

00:38:54.652 --> 00:38:55.891
Do hear about that?

00:38:55.952 --> 00:38:56.311
Brian K.

00:38:56.311 --> 00:38:57.130
Vaughn just posted about it.

00:38:57.130 --> 00:38:59.873
He also has spectators coming out this week with Nico Henderson.

00:38:59.873 --> 00:39:00.422
You hear about that?

00:39:00.422 --> 00:39:01.432
That came out this week.

00:39:01.432 --> 00:39:11.346
All of a sudden the cash register person, the clerk, sorry, the clerk, uh the people that were there buying their pool, all these people were all chatting.

00:39:11.346 --> 00:39:12.056
We're all talking.

00:39:12.056 --> 00:39:12.996
We're all having this conversation.

00:39:12.996 --> 00:39:17.277
As Aaron said, this moment, we're all talking about this thing we love.

00:39:17.277 --> 00:39:18.784
And it's like, there's this shorthand.

00:39:18.784 --> 00:39:28.753
Aaron, we love Inside Baseball, Inside Baseball is talking about these series that like who else gives a shit about Birds of Prey number 18?

00:39:29.425 --> 00:39:35.871
Nobody besides the three people that are in the shop with me and you know, the cash register person, but like, yeah, it's just there's this moment, right?

00:39:35.871 --> 00:39:38.653
Like that can only happen at a brick and mortar comic shop.

00:39:38.653 --> 00:39:40.054
It's so important.

00:39:40.596 --> 00:39:41.376
I had a question for you.

00:39:41.376 --> 00:39:41.956
Let me think about it.

00:39:41.956 --> 00:39:42.606
One second.

00:39:42.606 --> 00:39:46.280
Do I have a particularly like favorite moment or memory?

00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:52.036
Cause that's, that's, that's a question that I want to actually, I would love for the listeners.

00:39:52.036 --> 00:39:53.768
I would love for our Patreon members.

00:39:53.768 --> 00:39:58.423
I would love for people to come up and be like, Hey, like here's a beautiful memory.

00:39:58.423 --> 00:40:04.577
I'd like to share of an experience that I had at a comic shop or here's a beautiful experience that I've had, et cetera.

00:40:04.577 --> 00:40:07.161
Yeah, well, let me push it on to you then.

00:40:07.262 --> 00:40:13.739
Do you have a particular moment that comes to mind immediately in a comic shop that really just like is a core memory for you?

00:40:14.326 --> 00:40:23.329
I mean, besides, again, besides my buddy, George, really like taking the time to put books aside for me and put them into my, into my poll box.

00:40:23.329 --> 00:40:25.951
Like that'll always be like a core thing for me.

00:40:25.951 --> 00:40:40.697
Like that really meant the world for me because as, as somebody who, again, who has traveled around many places, who has lived many places, who has lived many lives, I don't have a lot of places that have felt like I've had roots there.

00:40:40.697 --> 00:40:50.056
And to have a friend like, to have somebody that I consider I can call a friend that knows my taste in like music or whatever and will put stuff aside for me.

00:40:50.056 --> 00:40:52.336
That meant the world for me.

00:40:52.336 --> 00:40:54.237
And it's such a small thing.

00:40:54.237 --> 00:40:59.139
It's something he probably does for a hundred other people who have boxes at the comic shop.

00:40:59.139 --> 00:41:01.628
But that was an amazing experience.

00:41:01.628 --> 00:41:10.561
Another one, ah I've had multiple recently because one of the first times that I came to visit you, I wanna say it was in...

00:41:10.925 --> 00:41:12.516
uh It was in St.

00:41:12.516 --> 00:41:13.347
Louis.

00:41:13.487 --> 00:41:40.865
And when you took the time to show Carly around the comic shop and like get her interested in stuff, just watching that conversation between my best friend and my wife, and my lad and her actually like, you know, absorbing it and processing it and like really enjoying it and actually picking up like Wonder Woman Dead Earth and like these other things and really like being interested in it.

00:41:40.865 --> 00:41:42.347
That meant the world to me.

00:41:42.347 --> 00:41:47.630
Like that was so, I know a lot of things mean the world to me because we all have lived very short lives.

00:41:47.630 --> 00:42:01.331
uh But it meant a lot to me to see that experience and not only have a moment where my best friend and my wife are bonding, but also to have that moment where it's like, this is something that she and I can go through life with as well.

00:42:01.581 --> 00:42:03.039
That was our first time meeting Carly, right?

00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:03.628
Yeah.

00:42:03.628 --> 00:42:04.137
Yeah.

00:42:04.137 --> 00:42:11.440
And it was, again, it's like, I was proud of you because I'd never really seen you like do the comic book shop thing.

00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:17.601
And, you know, I've always known that you were good at talking to people and like, you know, but this, this was like a whole different level.

00:42:17.601 --> 00:42:22.043
This was like, this was Chris in rare form to where he is inspiring.

00:42:22.043 --> 00:42:26.795
He can read somebody and he knows what they will probably enjoy reading.

00:42:26.795 --> 00:42:28.605
And it just, was, I don't know, it was a pleasure.

00:42:28.605 --> 00:42:30.766
was like a heart pleasure to see.

00:42:30.766 --> 00:42:35.791
um moment and moments like that are the absolute best.

00:42:35.791 --> 00:42:36.713
Yes.

00:42:36.713 --> 00:42:48.278
Not just in person, not just specifically with Carly, even though that one very specifically means a lot, but to talk to somebody and to get, get a read on them, you know, and see what they, what are their interests?

00:42:48.278 --> 00:42:50.639
What are they like to read generally?

00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:52.721
And then to find something that they actually really do enjoy.

00:42:52.721 --> 00:42:54.943
Gosh, is that, that is not a small thing.

00:42:54.943 --> 00:42:55.483
Right.

00:42:55.483 --> 00:42:57.094
And that's the least we can do everybody.

00:42:57.094 --> 00:43:00.025
If you're listening to this and you think, wow, that you can do that.

00:43:00.025 --> 00:43:01.378
Like it's so easy.

00:43:01.378 --> 00:43:10.773
to just like a comic shop or with a friend or someone that you know in your life, just without prompting, without being asked, be like, hey, I read this really cool thing recently.

00:43:10.773 --> 00:43:12.724
Want to check it out?

00:43:12.824 --> 00:43:14.985
That means the world to people a lot of times.

00:43:15.117 --> 00:43:27.358
And actually, you know what, the last thing I'll share is this week when I was actually at the veterans retreat, I got to sit down and people were asking me about the podcast, you know, who are in my, in my group.

00:43:27.358 --> 00:43:33.597
And I explained to them, they're like, so what, like, what are some awesome things that you've gotten to do or like people you got to talk to, to talk to you?

00:43:33.597 --> 00:43:40.108
And I was able to share with you, well, little bit, but We know David Dussmauertschne.

00:43:40.108 --> 00:43:41.271
It's not a big deal.

00:43:41.271 --> 00:43:42.583
I know that name.

00:43:42.643 --> 00:43:50.099
No, the one, I think one of the things that'll that'll really um stay in my heart for a long time.

00:43:50.099 --> 00:43:56.885
And the thing that I got to share, especially with this group, because, you know, there's not a lot of times where as someone who's, you know, a retired U.S.

00:43:56.885 --> 00:44:00.909
Army member, you know, I can be vulnerable, but around other veterans, I can be.

00:44:00.909 --> 00:44:01.309
And that's it.

00:44:01.309 --> 00:44:03.840
That is an incredible experience.

00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:09.666
to I got to share the conversation that we had with Christopher Priest.

00:44:09.858 --> 00:44:10.657
Yeah.

00:44:10.657 --> 00:44:15.460
about Superman Lost, because again, we process a lot of things when we're in these retreats.

00:44:15.460 --> 00:44:38.534
And one of them for me was some of the things that I've had to deal with with like PTSD and some of the experiences from overseas and to explain to people who also weren't necessarily into reading Superman comics, but have read comics before to get them to show interest in this book because it was so impactful to me.

00:44:38.737 --> 00:44:43.929
and my journey of healing from trauma, that meant so much to me.

00:44:43.929 --> 00:44:56.722
And I got a little emotional during the conversation because it's really, it is really, it is really tough to explain to somebody that a comic book character is relatable because of the, because of the trauma that they've gone through.

00:44:57.023 --> 00:45:07.896
And so that was a really special moment that I was able to share with some other veterans and hopefully they'll go and pick up this book because they seemed like they generally were interested in order to help them.

00:45:07.896 --> 00:45:11.108
heal and process some of their trauma as well.

00:45:11.108 --> 00:45:21.596
So I just think that again, learning that picture books with words in them can impact people on an emotional, mental and physical level is amazing.

00:45:21.596 --> 00:45:23.717
It's it's just simply amazing.

00:45:23.717 --> 00:45:24.594
Roger.

00:45:24.594 --> 00:45:27.954
said this about movies, but I think it can apply to any story.

00:45:27.954 --> 00:45:29.536
They are empathy machines.

00:45:29.536 --> 00:45:31.235
Stories are empathy machines.

00:45:31.235 --> 00:45:40.387
If you're able to connect with the story and the way that you did with Superman Lost or the way that I do with like, say, in by Will McPhail or Saga by Brian K.

00:45:40.387 --> 00:45:41.938
Vaughn and Fiona Staples.

00:45:41.958 --> 00:45:44.449
Gosh, there's it's there's like no better feeling.

00:45:44.449 --> 00:45:47.719
Actually, this just sort of combined our two moments.

00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:50.210
This is a this is a really important moment for me.

00:45:50.210 --> 00:45:58.699
This is not necessarily at a comic shop, but it's it does with comics is that We talked to Anna Meyer last week on the show, author and artist on St.

00:45:58.699 --> 00:46:03.152
Catherine from 23rd street and Olivia, my partner was really interested in it.

00:46:03.152 --> 00:46:05.702
She was interested like before I even talked to Anna.

00:46:05.702 --> 00:46:10.134
She read it on her way to Colorado and she, the text she sent me was like, gosh, I love this.

00:46:10.134 --> 00:46:10.795
This is incredible.

00:46:10.795 --> 00:46:12.545
I'm going to recommend it to my cousin.

00:46:12.545 --> 00:46:16.206
Like all, you know, the whole thing, like she just absolutely adored the story.

00:46:16.206 --> 00:46:20.628
And I got to send that to Anna and be like, Hey, this is what your story meant to my partner.

00:46:20.628 --> 00:46:21.139
I love it.

00:46:21.139 --> 00:46:29.416
And you know that because I'm a nerd and I had you my podcast, but my My partner who likes comics a little bit like she doesn't own a thousand trades like I do.

00:46:29.416 --> 00:46:31.217
She's just a very passive reader.

00:46:31.217 --> 00:46:31.956
Loved your book.

00:46:31.956 --> 00:46:40.391
And I think that's to be able to share that I think is not only one of the biggest perks of having the show, but also one of the biggest perks of being a comic reader and a fan of this medium.

00:46:40.391 --> 00:46:42.297
So back to shopping for Superman.

00:46:42.297 --> 00:46:44.041
Let's bring her back.

00:46:44.041 --> 00:46:52.769
uh Shopping for Superman was the winner, Aaron, of best documentary not only at San Diego Comic Con 2025.

00:46:52.769 --> 00:46:56.351
but also at the Los Angeles IFS Film Festival.

00:46:56.351 --> 00:47:01.753
So it's garnering a lot of praise, not only critically, but commercially as well.

00:47:01.753 --> 00:47:04.550
And for good reason, as we've talked about, it's incredible.

00:47:04.550 --> 00:47:16.836
I'm actually, I'm going to pass it off to you because while I was very, very intrigued to hear about this person and sort of learn the history of Phil Sueling, I think it's important that people know this guy because what I understand, and I've heard rumblings of him before.

00:47:16.836 --> 00:47:21.088
like, I've heard the name, but I didn't know what his significance was in in comics.

00:47:21.420 --> 00:47:25.034
Sounds like he was a real son of a bitch that just had a real like a bunch of great ideas.

00:47:25.034 --> 00:47:27.315
And you know that happens, right?

00:47:27.315 --> 00:47:35.925
Like if you read any classic book about Marvel or DC and like being in the bullpen in the sixties where everybody's smoking cigars and stabbing each other in the back, it was like a reality TV show.

00:47:35.925 --> 00:47:40.889
Phil was a part of that crew where like it was cutthroat, but he obviously had a really credible idea.

00:47:40.889 --> 00:47:45.184
Aaron, talk a little bit about Phil and sort of his, you know, being the godfather of the direct market.

00:47:45.184 --> 00:47:46.965
It's so funny that like.

00:47:46.965 --> 00:47:57.081
I feel like this is really where the, the, probably the, the origins of like New York Comic-Con probably came from and living here now it's, it's so, it's funny to learn about.

00:47:57.081 --> 00:48:04.903
So Phil Sulling, who is considered the Godfather of direct marketing, which, know, if you follow the show, if you listen to us, we've been talking a lot about diamond.

00:48:04.903 --> 00:48:11.998
We've been talking a lot about, you know, Penguin Random House, like all these like publishers and, and, know, distributors and everything that goes into it.

00:48:11.998 --> 00:48:21.603
It's been a tumultuous last few years, but Sulling was the, organizer of the annual New York Comic Art Convention.

00:48:21.603 --> 00:48:26.766
And that was originally held in New York City every July 4th weekend throughout the 1970s.

00:48:26.766 --> 00:48:36.081
And then he made comic book history on July 28, 1977, by appearing on an episode of the Mike Douglas show to discuss comic book collecting and conventions.

00:48:36.081 --> 00:48:44.289
And it was really, they showed clips of that conversation during the during the documentary and was really interesting because he just looked already.

00:48:44.289 --> 00:48:48.202
He kind of reminded me like iron giant, not iron giant, but Andre the giant.

00:48:48.362 --> 00:48:54.728
He was just like this giant of a man, he had a huge presence uh and yet he had this confidence about him.

00:48:54.728 --> 00:49:02.623
But at the same time, when he's sitting, he kind of looked a little bit insecure, which I think we can all kind of relate to in situations like that.

00:49:02.623 --> 00:49:08.902
you know, He was also talking about this medium that was, mean, up to that point about, or it was for children, right?

00:49:08.902 --> 00:49:18.731
Like, so he was like one of the, I would say one of the first outspoken people to like see this medium for more than just being children's reading trash, right?

00:49:18.731 --> 00:49:19.362
Yes.

00:49:19.362 --> 00:49:40.458
that's, and that's, yeah, he was basically saying like, and I loved one of the things I'm just going to jump to real quick is I don't remember which artists or whoever who said it in the documentary, but they said, they stated that, you know, kids who grow up reading comics, uh, go on to be lifelong readers in every other, like in every instance of, of digestible mediums.

00:49:40.458 --> 00:49:41.628
So I think that's incredible.

00:49:41.628 --> 00:49:41.978
Yeah.

00:49:41.978 --> 00:49:42.619
Yeah, exactly.

00:49:42.619 --> 00:49:43.289
Exactly.

00:49:43.289 --> 00:49:58.347
Um, so later, with his Seagate Distributors Company, Sueling developed the concept of the direct market distribution system for getting comics directly into comic book shops, bypassing the established like newspaper and magazine distributor method.

00:49:58.347 --> 00:50:12.648
Or so like going from the news rack to the comic shop distribution method, where there were no choices of title, of quantity or delivery directions were permitted.

00:50:12.648 --> 00:50:16.257
So it was this really bare bones distribution.

00:50:16.257 --> 00:50:24.583
And it was interesting because this documentary covers the evolution of how comic shops really became the lifeblood of distributing comics.

00:50:24.583 --> 00:50:30.487
But at the same time, in order to get that to happen, it was a battle of it was a battle of giants.

00:50:30.487 --> 00:50:37.802
It was literally the companies fighting for the ability to distribute comics, land, and air.

00:50:37.802 --> 00:50:44.590
And it was just it was again, if you love any of this logistical information or the background behind these things.

00:50:44.590 --> 00:50:47.632
This is another reason to watch this documentary because it goes well into it.

00:50:47.632 --> 00:50:49.103
It doesn't cover everything.

00:50:49.103 --> 00:50:58.351
I wish they would have kind of covered uh when this whole like, you know, Wednesday warrior like release on Tuesday, Wednesday kind of idea was implemented.

00:50:58.351 --> 00:51:17.791
uh I would have liked to see that full like kind of like fully flushed out, but to learn the journey that comics have taken amongst different distributors and bankruptcies and problems and cutthroat you know, like I already call it like lawsuits and it's just, it's so interesting.

00:51:17.813 --> 00:51:37.182
I think uh people often don't realize this and I think we know this on some level, but this documentary did a great job of sort of shedding new light on the idea is that comics for as long as they've been around have mostly been old rich white dudes fighting each other over the rights to sell these things, right?

00:51:37.182 --> 00:51:38.293
Or to write these things.

00:51:38.293 --> 00:51:44.824
Like, of course, as I said, like the Marvel bullpen was just like littered with folks who hated each other.

00:51:44.824 --> 00:51:47.554
And we're like at each other's throats constantly to get ahead.

00:51:47.554 --> 00:51:52.315
Cause like money was tight and this industry has never been an industry where people make a ton of money.

00:51:52.315 --> 00:52:03.179
Now again, Phil, like the documentary is very adamant about saying like Phil gets rich for a bit, but then like quickly the folks around him go, wait, it's got a great idea.

00:52:03.179 --> 00:52:04.858
We could do that too over here.

00:52:04.858 --> 00:52:08.579
And then like all these people start realizing that they could also start their own distribution.

00:52:08.579 --> 00:52:15.182
And then it sort of all implodes on itself because Phil's getting preferential treatment from publishers.

00:52:15.182 --> 00:52:21.349
They all knew him from sort of the Comic-Con scene and just like him making relationships, right?

00:52:21.349 --> 00:52:25.393
So like they gave him preferential rights because they knew him.

00:52:25.393 --> 00:52:29.202
But then after a while, that goodwill sort of goes away.

00:52:29.202 --> 00:52:35.081
You're like, there's enough people that can do things in a very similar or cheap way that, hey, you're my bud.

00:52:35.081 --> 00:52:37.193
Capitalism doesn't care about being buds, you know?

00:52:37.193 --> 00:52:39.204
Like you eventually lose out on that.

00:52:39.925 --> 00:52:50.650
The industries are all their own worst enemy because somebody's going to go in there and somebody's going to invent or think about somebody's going to dream up a brand new, cheaper, more efficient way of doing it.

00:52:50.650 --> 00:52:51.871
And that was it.

00:52:51.871 --> 00:53:06.617
And again, when I talk about wishing I had known like when the Tuesday, Wednesday, like street date requirement was implemented is because one thing that was really interesting was the battle of getting the books to the shops the earliest.

00:53:06.617 --> 00:53:08.780
If you could get them to your shop.

00:53:08.780 --> 00:53:11.891
The earlier the better, the more you would sell.

00:53:12.311 --> 00:53:20.623
And that is such an interesting concept because again, a lot of us only really know this idea of going on Wednesday to be a Wednesday warrior.

00:53:20.623 --> 00:53:31.784
You know, I've only ever seen comic shops that release all of them on Wednesday, but for a while there, like DC was available on Tuesday before Marvel on Wednesday.

00:53:31.784 --> 00:53:34.025
I think that that was a deliberate effort as we're talking about it.

00:53:34.025 --> 00:53:37.666
Like I think that was an effort by DC to go, Hey, it's just an advantage, right?

00:53:37.666 --> 00:53:40.317
It's them trying to take advantage of a moment.

00:53:40.317 --> 00:53:41.056
Right.

00:53:41.056 --> 00:53:51.670
That is, that's a lot of times that's how you get ahead in this ever changing landscape of distribution is like, what small thing can I do to be better than insert publisher?

00:53:51.670 --> 00:53:52.079
Right.

00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:58.802
We're seeing with like right now with blind bags for a while DC wasn't doing well, there's like, there's multiple moments in my life that I can remember.

00:53:58.802 --> 00:54:04.893
Like When New 52 happened with DC in the early 2010s, every book, every single book that they put out was $2.99.

00:54:04.893 --> 00:54:09.815
It was a deliberate effort because people were getting really upset that comics were increasing in price.

00:54:09.815 --> 00:54:12.117
So like for a long time, everything is $2.99.

00:54:12.117 --> 00:54:15.199
And then like they also, for a while, DC wasn't doing any variants.

00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:17.690
They had a cover B, but it wasn't any more expensive.

00:54:17.690 --> 00:54:18.371
They didn't have ratios.

00:54:18.371 --> 00:54:20.262
And now of course they're doing their ratios.

00:54:20.262 --> 00:54:22.103
You're seeing it with like die cut covers.

00:54:22.103 --> 00:54:23.614
You're seeing it with blind bags.

00:54:23.614 --> 00:54:24.864
You're seeing it with...

00:54:25.445 --> 00:54:28.166
Cans, all these things.

00:54:28.641 --> 00:54:41.650
exclusives uh really everybody can have their own variant these days like there's there is no end every comic shop has if they can afford it They can have their own variant and that is the crazy thing.

00:54:41.650 --> 00:54:46.288
Yeah So ah again, I don't know how much more we can really say about the movie.

00:54:46.288 --> 00:54:49.898
I will say that like, here's some of the people that show up, I guess in the documentary.

00:54:49.898 --> 00:55:00.784
have Kevin Eastman shows up, Derek Robertson, Beggin Hutchinson, Jim Mahfoo, Phil Lamar, Joe Ferrera, Juck Rozanski again from Mile High Comics, Katie Pride, Joe Field.

00:55:00.784 --> 00:55:09.358
mean, Jim Shooter, Dan Jergens, so many folks, Bud Plant, Jeff Smith, like lots of folks show up and it's all.

00:55:09.568 --> 00:55:13.300
Either comic shop owners, people who have worked in the industry for a long time, distributors.

00:55:13.300 --> 00:55:14.300
It's just incredible.

00:55:14.300 --> 00:55:15.961
And all the talking head stuff is great.

00:55:15.961 --> 00:55:21.425
I think the very, I think that's sort of the last thing I'll say about shopping for Superman is that it's extremely well made.

00:55:21.425 --> 00:55:33.570
What Wes and Co were able to create here with this, with this again, a film that took not only 10 years, but was kickstarted at one point for extra sort of uh marketing and such phenomenal job.

00:55:33.570 --> 00:55:38.414
Again, as we've already said it, and I'll say it one more time, this should be required watching for every comic book.

00:55:38.414 --> 00:55:41.313
shop owner and clerk going forward.

00:55:42.193 --> 00:55:50.434
So, Aaron, is there anything that I actually I had a couple of things I wanted to sort of highlight at the very end if I can just to get your your feel on it before we get over to Wes and that conversation with him.

00:55:50.434 --> 00:55:58.494
So I found it fascinating that Chuck Rosansky from My Hot Comics, he said that he could sell 10,000 comics a day for 26 years.

00:55:58.494 --> 00:56:02.094
That would be the only way that he could get rid of his entire stock there at My Hot Comics.

00:56:02.094 --> 00:56:09.114
So they actually showed a couple of, I think it was like news articles of comic shops that were closing.

00:56:09.114 --> 00:56:22.333
And it's funny because I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, but there's a place here in, I think it's in Brooklyn, but it's Cox Comics, Cox Coaches, whatever.

00:56:22.614 --> 00:56:27.873
So he's been like closing his like warehouse for like three years.

00:56:27.873 --> 00:56:30.182
You've told me that you've gone to that warehouse, right?

00:56:30.793 --> 00:56:31.764
I mean, it is insane.

00:56:31.764 --> 00:56:40.103
I don't know what it's like, but I still see, I'm still seeing postings of the collection and him like trying to sell stuff and close out of there.

00:56:40.103 --> 00:56:57.505
So, I mean, I, you know, sometimes I like, you know, I could just pop over there, but like, I'm just saying to him, like, what's, you know, I don't know, but I just, me that was like super interesting seeing the different comic shops and the amount of stuff that's in them because that one has My high is insane, dude.

00:56:57.505 --> 00:56:58.436
Literally insane.

00:56:58.436 --> 00:57:00.447
just went to one in Toronto.

00:57:00.447 --> 00:57:02.608
It was Gotham City Comics, I think.

00:57:02.608 --> 00:57:04.588
And that place was massive.

00:57:04.588 --> 00:57:07.880
And it was they were getting ready for their their fan expo.

00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:10.442
The Toronto, I think, Toronto, Toronto fan expo or something.

00:57:10.442 --> 00:57:10.692
Yeah.

00:57:10.692 --> 00:57:13.773
And so like a lot of their stuff was boxed up and gone.

00:57:13.773 --> 00:57:22.117
But like this place was still mad, all of just like comics and variants and grades and all this stuff like going up the walls.

00:57:22.117 --> 00:57:23.021
It was nuts.

00:57:23.021 --> 00:57:35.161
I have to say, just to go back to Mile High really quickly, if you ever go, I went a couple of months ago while I was in Denver for a work conference and it's, I would say it's, it's a museum that sort of masquerades as a comic shop.

00:57:35.161 --> 00:57:39.322
Whereas like you can buy things, but A, it's sensory overload.

00:57:39.322 --> 00:57:48.342
The moment you walk in, don't, and someone who like has a, I'm like Ron Swanson in that episode of Parks and Rec when he goes to Lowe's and the guy goes, Hey, can I help you with anything?

00:57:48.342 --> 00:57:50.461
And I go, I know more than you.

00:57:51.005 --> 00:57:51.766
I don't ever say that.

00:57:51.766 --> 00:57:53.668
I've never said that to anybody, but that's what I think in my head.

00:57:53.668 --> 00:57:54.447
I'm always like, thank you.

00:57:54.447 --> 00:57:54.987
I'm actually good.

00:57:54.987 --> 00:57:55.967
Thank you so much.

00:57:55.967 --> 00:57:57.179
But in my head, I'm like, get away from me.

00:57:57.179 --> 00:57:58.068
I know what I'm doing.

00:57:58.068 --> 00:58:06.532
But Mile High is the bylaw in that thought because you go in and it is just wall to wall, not even wall to wall, ceiling to wall.

00:58:06.532 --> 00:58:10.974
It's a warehouse that just, it's got everything and it's more expensive.

00:58:10.974 --> 00:58:17.018
Like it's purposely more expensive because when you go in, you're going there for the experience and they want to catch you to like buy things, right?

00:58:17.018 --> 00:58:18.458
But it's...

00:58:18.699 --> 00:58:20.438
a bucket list place that everyone should go.

00:58:20.438 --> 00:58:22.726
think if you're coming to my high.

00:58:22.733 --> 00:58:26.005
I definitely, while I was watching, I was like, we need to go to Denver.

00:58:26.005 --> 00:58:26.746
Yes.

00:58:26.746 --> 00:58:37.731
Another thing I had was, we talked about Phil Sueling and sort of his, you know, bringing together, you know, the direct market and distributing comics being sort of the godfather of that.

00:58:37.731 --> 00:58:44.873
The perfect storm of distribution, that world collapsing and the rise of diamond, as we've talked about, and so we're seeing the fall of diamond currently.

00:58:44.873 --> 00:58:48.755
And I've heard people say this, but like the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

00:58:48.755 --> 00:58:50.717
And we're kind of seeing that right now with diamond.

00:58:50.717 --> 00:59:26.596
And they're suing individual Publishers there are a of shit everybody I've been saying it from the beginning but like they were a necessary evil That's very apparent in this film Like it goes over the fact that like had diamond not existed at the time had it not already been a major player during the disruption of and sort of the the downfall of the image boom and the and the buyer boom of the 90s if diamond wasn't there already owning more almost half of the industry The comics industry would have failed as we know it If they weren't there to like pick up the pieces and sort of become a conglomerate and become a monopoly at that time, because all those other publishers were not prepared for this.

00:59:26.596 --> 00:59:27.405
They were way over.

00:59:27.405 --> 00:59:28.655
They were overstocked.

00:59:28.655 --> 00:59:31.896
They had so much back stock of things that they could not sell.

00:59:32.036 --> 00:59:36.717
And Diamond was the only one that was like, OK, well, we'll buy you like you want to just give us all your stock.

00:59:36.717 --> 00:59:38.259
We'll buy you and all the things.

00:59:38.259 --> 00:59:41.380
Yeah, it's just that sort of contextualize all of that.

00:59:41.500 --> 00:59:50.030
I love the emphasis on young readers at the end of the film and how extremely important it is for us as comic fans, but also for comic stores specifically.

00:59:50.030 --> 00:59:52.329
They have to get young readers on board.

00:59:52.329 --> 00:59:53.989
You have to get them hooked early, guys.

00:59:53.989 --> 00:59:55.489
It's a gateway drug, as we said.

00:59:55.489 --> 00:59:59.190
You got to get them in there and you got to make sure they're seen and heard in comic shops.

00:59:59.190 --> 01:00:15.710
If you're a comic shop guy who just like sits behind the register and just talk shit to the guy you've been talking to for the last 17 years, some pull holder who has been picking up every Batman title since 99, like since the death of Robin or the death of the family.

01:00:15.710 --> 01:00:16.010
Thank you.

01:00:16.010 --> 01:00:17.329
Since the death of the family.

01:00:17.329 --> 01:00:18.429
Like, wow.

01:00:18.429 --> 01:00:18.869
Yeah.

01:00:18.869 --> 01:00:22.034
Good job, That's not good.

01:00:22.034 --> 01:00:26.217
You have to like really make sure the young reader has a gateway.

01:00:26.217 --> 01:00:36.182
And then the last thing I'll say is that there's an emphasis on this idea that I've been screaming, Aaron, I've been telling you, I try to bring this up as much as I can with comic writers and artists when they come on the show.

01:00:36.362 --> 01:00:48.480
The big two specifically, I'm looking at you, Marvel and DC, but I think publishers in general, I think it's getting better, but it's horrific how bad the marketing is in comics.

01:00:48.545 --> 01:00:53.268
The fact that the writer and the artist and the creative team have to do any marketing at all.

01:00:54.568 --> 01:01:02.291
Like we are, like if I were to describe the Oblivion Bar or folks like us, we are essentially a marketing outlet for them.

01:01:02.291 --> 01:01:09.534
We bring them on the show, we chat with them for an hour-ish to talk about the thing they want to talk about to hopefully get people interested in their work.

01:01:09.534 --> 01:01:10.846
That's a pleasure for Aaron and I.

01:01:10.846 --> 01:01:12.155
We love doing that.

01:01:12.155 --> 01:01:14.317
But they shouldn't have to do that.

01:01:14.396 --> 01:01:15.958
I'm so happy they do.

01:01:16.469 --> 01:01:17.561
It's sort of a double-edged sword, right?

01:01:17.561 --> 01:01:26.815
It's a I'm of two minds but comic publishers should do a much better job because like you and I, Aaron and people listening to the show right now We're gonna buy the shit.

01:01:26.815 --> 01:01:29.498
Don't market to us We're gonna buy it.

01:01:29.498 --> 01:01:36.530
We know it We know we're looking for the people who look through previews and all that shit like yeah We're gonna market to people who don't already buy comics.

01:01:36.530 --> 01:01:43.224
That's who we need to market to you know So that's the end of my spiel those are all the notes I had for the film Aaron unless you have anything else.

01:01:43.224 --> 01:01:46.128
I think that'll probably do it again I don't think we need to say anything else.

01:01:46.128 --> 01:01:47.498
Go watch Shopping for Superman.

01:01:47.498 --> 01:01:54.918
September 19th, as we talked about at beginning of the show, September 19th, it'll be available on Apple TV Plus and Amazon and Google Play, all the things.

01:01:54.918 --> 01:01:57.300
VOD, go rent it, buy it.

01:01:57.300 --> 01:01:58.963
This is important, everybody.

01:01:58.963 --> 01:02:02.065
Aaron, anything before we move on to our conversation with Wes?

01:02:02.143 --> 01:02:05.626
No, I'm excited to get him talk.

01:02:05.626 --> 01:02:06.246
All right.

01:02:06.246 --> 01:02:08.728
Well, without further ado again, go pick up shopping for Superman.

01:02:08.728 --> 01:02:14.313
But here is our conversation with the writer and director of the documentary we've been talking about, Westeastern.

01:02:14.594 --> 01:02:18.056
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Oblivion Bar podcast.

01:02:18.056 --> 01:02:19.577
I'm of course Chris Hacker.

01:02:19.577 --> 01:02:23.840
I'm actually here live at Downtown Comics here in downtown Indianapolis.

01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:25.882
It is the week of Gen Con.

01:02:25.882 --> 01:02:30.407
And if you hear us sort of talking lightly, it's because we're trying not to bother the entire shop.

01:02:30.407 --> 01:02:33.539
We're already making them turn off their music and doing all the things.

01:02:33.539 --> 01:02:34.670
So we appreciate them.

01:02:34.670 --> 01:02:39.192
For doing that, we'll try our best to sort of say very uh respectful in that sense.

01:02:39.192 --> 01:02:49.496
But I'm of course, as you probably saw, as you clicked on the episode, I am joined by the director, the producer, all the cool things, the crowd funder, all the things of shopping for Superman, Wes Easton.

01:02:49.496 --> 01:02:50.976
Thank you so much for joining me here today, Wes.

01:02:50.976 --> 01:02:51.777
Thanks.

01:02:51.956 --> 01:02:52.487
Absolutely.

01:02:52.487 --> 01:02:57.739
So you're in town this week here in Indianapolis for Gen Con, right?

01:02:57.739 --> 01:02:59.800
You were at San Diego the week before that.

01:02:59.800 --> 01:03:00.201
Yes.

01:03:00.201 --> 01:03:05.387
OK, so I guess my first question, and this is obviously total gotcha journalism.

01:03:05.389 --> 01:03:06.572
Are you more of a board gamer?

01:03:06.572 --> 01:03:07.663
Are you more of a comic reader?

01:03:07.663 --> 01:03:09.592
Where's your love truly lie?

01:03:09.592 --> 01:03:15.086
Boy, if it it meant an uptick in sales, then I'm the biggest board gamer that ever existed.

01:03:15.086 --> 01:03:22.092
In reality, I have a very tangential uh relationship with uh board gaming.

01:03:22.092 --> 01:03:23.934
My biggest I am.

01:03:23.934 --> 01:03:26.083
uh Contrary it by nature.

01:03:26.083 --> 01:03:40.340
So when someone says we're gonna take out a game and it's gonna take 30 minutes for you to learn I say no I'm not I'm gonna drink and judge you for the lamest party ever but I'm very wrong because walking through the showroom I saw some super crazy amazing stuff.

01:03:40.340 --> 01:03:55.077
That's like I just Beyond what I would have expected for a board game to be sure really involved in beautiful stuff Yeah, I have about 10 to 12 board games at home that I've never played because, know, I've bought like the Marvel Heroes game.

01:03:55.077 --> 01:03:56.409
There's the DC deck builder.

01:03:56.409 --> 01:03:58.932
There's some Resident Evil crowdfunding games.

01:03:58.932 --> 01:04:02.123
And I just haven't found anyone in my close knit.

01:04:02.123 --> 01:04:06.400
friend group that would be willing to sit down for eight to 10 hours to play that RPG.

01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:16.715
uh So it's nice to know that there are folks like me out there like you who, you if it takes more than 12 minutes to explain a game, not, I lose interest and I'd rather just go take a shot of fireball or something.

01:04:16.715 --> 01:04:21.233
Yeah, you know, we can we could definitely it gets more interesting once like, okay, I'll try and learn this now.

01:04:21.233 --> 01:04:25.961
Like Katan, someone said, we're gonna play that and said, I, I would rather play Civ alone.

01:04:25.961 --> 01:04:26.413
Sure.

01:04:26.413 --> 01:04:27.713
Than this, I think.

01:04:27.713 --> 01:04:32.077
Yeah, let me ask you this one more board game question before we get to shopping with Superman.

01:04:32.257 --> 01:04:33.838
Have you ever played Splendor?

01:04:34.858 --> 01:04:43.155
It's a sort of a it's a it's a gem based uh like resource game where you have to like collect a certain amount of gems and then once you get to 15, you win.

01:04:43.155 --> 01:04:44.795
It's obviously more intricate than that.

01:04:44.795 --> 01:04:45.777
I'm explaining it terribly.

01:04:45.777 --> 01:04:50.989
But if you ever get a chance, definitely check out Splendor while you're there at Gen Con this weekend here in Indianapolis.

01:04:51.090 --> 01:04:52.262
There's two versions.

01:04:52.262 --> 01:04:55.637
I want to say there's the normal version and then there's also a Marvel.

01:04:55.637 --> 01:04:59.849
Thanos version where obviously collect the infinity stones instead of the normal gym.

01:04:59.849 --> 01:05:01.380
So it's my favorite board game of all time.

01:05:01.380 --> 01:05:02.809
It's super easy to learn.

01:05:02.809 --> 01:05:03.590
It's very quick.

01:05:03.590 --> 01:05:06.630
I would say games last no longer than 20 minutes per game.

01:05:06.630 --> 01:05:08.101
OK, super fun.

01:05:08.101 --> 01:05:10.521
everyone listening and Wes check out Splendor.

01:05:10.521 --> 01:05:11.362
Really great.

01:05:11.362 --> 01:05:12.483
So yeah.

01:05:12.483 --> 01:05:14.103
So let's talk about why you're actually here.

01:05:14.103 --> 01:05:29.728
You know, again, as we said, you were at San Diego Comic Con last week promoting shopping for Superman, which is your documentary sort of I would say more of a love letter to the local comic book shop, a place that I think all of us sort of find to be a safe haven, a place of community, fellowship, all those good things.

01:05:29.728 --> 01:05:32.360
Some of us have even had the fortune of working at one like myself.

01:05:32.360 --> 01:05:35.601
I've worked at uh the fantasy shop in St.

01:05:35.601 --> 01:05:36.242
Charles, Missouri.

01:05:36.242 --> 01:05:40.014
And believe it or not, we are sitting currently in a downtown comics.

01:05:40.014 --> 01:05:44.215
I once worked at a downtown comics, but it was the West side, which I think is no longer around.

01:05:44.215 --> 01:05:46.065
So I'm going to shift it over to you.

01:05:46.065 --> 01:05:51.380
I'm going to ask you just give sort of a brief overview of, your history and filmmaking.

01:05:51.380 --> 01:06:01.677
I know it's maybe a big question, but sort of like your history and filmmaking and then Also, why did you end up, what was like the defining moment that made you decide to start working on shopping for Superman?

01:06:01.677 --> 01:06:02.637
Those are all great questions.

01:06:02.637 --> 01:06:06.000
uh So I started as a filmmaker actually in Atlanta, Georgia.

01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:08.661
I went to school at Georgia State University.

01:06:08.820 --> 01:06:11.463
I very much wanted to be a writer coming out of high school.

01:06:11.463 --> 01:06:15.655
I wanted to do the thing that is uh the key to making the film.

01:06:15.655 --> 01:06:16.704
You know what mean?

01:06:16.864 --> 01:06:24.518
And when I graduated, I had spent a lot of time as a theater minor and took that experience over to Turner Broadcasting.

01:06:24.518 --> 01:06:27.429
I joke with my wife, she's very much into sports.

01:06:27.429 --> 01:06:28.190
I'm not.

01:06:28.190 --> 01:06:31.831
But I would work around Shaq and the team for like NBA on TNT.

01:06:31.831 --> 01:06:34.333
And I would say, Shaquille O'Neal and I were colleagues.

01:06:34.333 --> 01:06:36.373
We were office, we were coworkers.

01:06:36.373 --> 01:06:38.835
And she said, could he point you out of a crowd?

01:06:38.835 --> 01:06:40.394
Well, he wouldn't do that.

01:06:40.394 --> 01:06:41.896
Shaq doesn't like to point.

01:06:41.896 --> 01:06:42.956
Right.

01:06:44.336 --> 01:06:46.297
Yeah, he's a mammoth of a man.

01:06:46.297 --> 01:06:47.418
He's so huge.

01:06:47.697 --> 01:06:50.918
But from there, the film scene in Atlanta was really taking off.

01:06:50.918 --> 01:06:54.119
And so was able to work on a lot of feature films as a day player.

01:06:54.119 --> 01:06:58.501
But I realized I'd be doing a lot of schlepping cable around.

01:06:59.237 --> 01:07:03.222
There's nothing wrong with that, but my back and my knees disagree.

01:07:03.222 --> 01:07:06.396
And I still wanted to be more involved with the creative aspects.

01:07:06.396 --> 01:07:14.456
And I just didn't see a faster route to that through being a grip or an electrician, more an electrician than a grip.

01:07:14.516 --> 01:07:15.543
So I moved.

01:07:15.543 --> 01:07:16.364
to the West Coast.

01:07:16.364 --> 01:07:24.121
And when I did that, all of my friends are laughing because they built Pinewood Studios in Fayetteville, Georgia down the street from Easton Road.

01:07:24.121 --> 01:07:28.434
My parents are saying, they're building a studio down the street from where you grew up.

01:07:28.434 --> 01:07:31.206
And I'm saying, well, we don't just stand around in the studio.

01:07:31.206 --> 01:07:32.717
They're empty until someone rents it.

01:07:32.717 --> 01:07:35.851
And then they did Ant-Man and Guardians of the Galaxy there.

01:07:35.851 --> 01:07:42.016
By the time I got to Los Angeles, Guardians premiered the day I moved in to my apartment.

01:07:42.016 --> 01:07:49.722
And all my friends worked on all of the Marvel movies and I was out there saying, I'll do whatever you want, mister, for $75.

01:07:49.722 --> 01:07:54.822
And to be clear, that means light or shoot whatever.

01:07:54.822 --> 01:07:58.981
It was so hard to kind of start over in Los Angeles.

01:07:58.981 --> 01:08:04.362
I managed to get some work as a director in a comedy space for Ray William Johnson.

01:08:04.362 --> 01:08:06.121
had a...

01:08:06.121 --> 01:08:06.971
Three?

01:08:06.971 --> 01:08:08.014
I remember those days.

01:08:08.014 --> 01:08:09.096
I'm old enough to remember that.

01:08:09.096 --> 01:08:09.335
wow.

01:08:09.335 --> 01:08:09.516
Yeah.

01:08:09.516 --> 01:08:18.014
Well, I guess I'm the angel of death because while I was there, they decided he's said, you know, I'm kind of sick of doing it this way with all these people.

01:08:18.014 --> 01:08:23.899
I'm just going to shutter all of this and make quick, like easily consumed pieces.

01:08:23.899 --> 01:08:24.970
And he's still doing great.

01:08:24.970 --> 01:08:28.323
And so I moved on to marketing and worked for New Way Computers.

01:08:28.323 --> 01:08:34.507
And while I was actually at Ray's studio, I got the idea that I wanted to make a feature about something that I really cared about.

01:08:34.507 --> 01:08:36.489
comic shops have always been.

01:08:37.293 --> 01:08:41.373
They've always been that keystone in my life as far back as I can remember.

01:08:41.373 --> 01:08:45.753
found the first comic book shop in a Yellow Pages and said, wait, this is a thing.

01:08:45.753 --> 01:08:50.753
You know, I'd been reading comics from the newsstand, the pharmacy, the grocery store, wherever I could get my hands on them.

01:08:50.753 --> 01:08:51.256
And then.

01:08:51.256 --> 01:08:53.747
Can I can really interject just for all the young listeners out there?

01:08:53.747 --> 01:08:57.349
The yellow pages was a section in what was called a phone book.

01:08:57.510 --> 01:09:01.402
And that was usually where you put ads or job opportunities and so on.

01:09:01.402 --> 01:09:01.971
So sorry.

01:09:01.971 --> 01:09:02.773
Go ahead, Wes.

01:09:02.773 --> 01:09:03.894
They need that context.

01:09:03.894 --> 01:09:05.694
like, is the book yellow?

01:09:06.574 --> 01:09:14.719
So anyway, I lost my place there just trying to think of the yellow page is like how crucial that was to everything.

01:09:14.719 --> 01:09:23.503
But going into a comic book shop, saw it went from I knew about Batman, I knew about Superman, Spider-Man, everything we knew in the social conscience.

01:09:23.503 --> 01:09:23.863
Right.

01:09:23.863 --> 01:09:26.335
And then I found more.

01:09:26.335 --> 01:09:29.766
saw a poster for this guy made out of rock called Concrete.

01:09:29.766 --> 01:09:32.667
I saw this book called Strangers in Paradise.

01:09:32.667 --> 01:09:34.378
and it didn't look action-packed.

01:09:34.378 --> 01:09:36.349
It was two ladies on the cover.

01:09:36.448 --> 01:09:38.369
It just made me wonder, like, people read this?

01:09:38.369 --> 01:09:39.489
Who's this Deadpool guy?

01:09:39.489 --> 01:09:48.631
Like, suddenly there were just all these possibilities in comics, and I was able to, I started collecting all the Wolverines that I'd ever wanted and never read, and it was fantastic.

01:09:48.631 --> 01:09:57.792
The comic shop was always the place where, as a nerdy kid who loved to read, I didn't always get along with people at school because you know, sports are cool.

01:09:57.792 --> 01:09:58.612
Reading is lame.

01:09:58.612 --> 01:10:01.694
That was that was the notion at the in the 90s anyway.

01:10:01.694 --> 01:10:07.355
And going to a comic book store, I had a shorthand with anyone I encountered, mostly adults too, which was strange.

01:10:07.355 --> 01:10:09.777
You know, I'm used to it being a children's medium.

01:10:09.777 --> 01:10:18.421
And then you see adults coming in buying some book called Gen 13 or teens buying books that are like made for tailor made for their demo.

01:10:18.421 --> 01:10:22.103
Whereas everything I'd read was made for a kiddo.

01:10:22.103 --> 01:10:58.605
And the habit just of stuck because everywhere I've lived I've found the comic book shop when I travel with my wife now she rolls her eyes because I'll say there's a shop if we go around this corner and I'll try and spend a few bucks just to walk in and see it because it's one of the few comic shops are one of the few businesses that we have that are not homogenized anyway when you have the your when you think of a comic book store you're thinking of an experience that's very for the most part very unique to your part of town, where you live, it's not going to necessarily be the same throughout the country.

01:10:58.605 --> 01:10:59.586
Yeah, absolutely.

01:10:59.586 --> 01:11:00.345
You're right.

01:11:00.345 --> 01:11:05.206
think just to sort of speak on what you mentioned there a moment ago, it feels almost like necessary.

01:11:05.206 --> 01:11:08.145
It feels like you're doing your part when you go into a comic shop.

01:11:08.145 --> 01:11:10.006
And I think listeners will tell you this.

01:11:10.006 --> 01:11:11.525
My partner, Olivia, will tell you this.

01:11:11.525 --> 01:11:12.746
I have too many books.

01:11:12.746 --> 01:11:15.164
I've got around 1,400 trades in total.

01:11:15.305 --> 01:11:16.886
So too many as is.

01:11:16.886 --> 01:11:30.751
But I feel compelled to buy something when I go to a comic shop just because I want to support their venture and keep places like this alive, place of community, a place where this still exist in a world that is very rapidly transitioning to a digital age.

01:11:30.751 --> 01:11:35.422
And that's not just including the shop itself, the brick and mortar, but also comics as a whole.

01:11:35.422 --> 01:11:48.576
mean, there's being at San Diego last week, it feels like there's this rising tide of a digital first sort of approach with publishers, which is really scary and honestly something that I hope never truly happens.

01:11:48.695 --> 01:11:56.938
But it feels like it's a true it's our responsibility to participate in this thing called know, brick and mortar comic shops.

01:11:56.938 --> 01:11:57.488
Absolutely.

01:11:57.488 --> 01:11:57.918
Yeah.

01:11:57.918 --> 01:12:02.461
So well, the social aspect is extremely important, I think now more than ever.

01:12:02.461 --> 01:12:19.828
But also, when you talk about the digital side, it's interesting because from I want to say the late 80s till maybe uh less than a decade ago, the comics industry was synonymous with comic shops, you know, forget movies, TV, although, you know, other IP that's out there.

01:12:19.828 --> 01:12:22.810
comic shops and comic books were one in the same.

01:12:22.850 --> 01:12:28.613
And now with the digital front, I'd be great for the industry as a whole artist writers they need to eat too.

01:12:28.613 --> 01:12:35.974
But the fact that a lot of people have been keeping up with their comics digitally, I don't think there's anything entirely wrong with that.

01:12:35.974 --> 01:12:41.810
it is kind of this strange, it's not a dangerous spot or anything.

01:12:41.810 --> 01:12:45.402
It's just the collector uh aspect of comics.

01:12:45.402 --> 01:12:47.462
I don't know if it'll ever go away.

01:12:47.462 --> 01:12:52.948
But if are we, the question I've asked a number of people, are we siphoning readers with digital?

01:12:52.948 --> 01:13:02.685
from the comic book shop or are we making comics more available, more ubiquitous and more of interest to people that possibly wouldn't necessarily go into a comic shop?

01:13:02.685 --> 01:13:08.889
Because if you think about again going back to the 80s and 90s, one of the things that I love is the evolution of most shops.

01:13:08.889 --> 01:13:16.484
The stores I went into, the, call it gatekeeper attitude of you say you're a fan of comics, year old boy.

01:13:16.484 --> 01:13:20.967
Tell me what happened in issue, what...

01:13:21.918 --> 01:13:24.970
The people weren't always, you know, uh social butterflies.

01:13:24.970 --> 01:13:25.301
Sure.

01:13:25.301 --> 01:13:29.456
But they ran the store and they always had their books on the shelf and they were supposed to.

01:13:29.456 --> 01:13:32.337
So it fed the beast and all of us that were in there.

01:13:32.337 --> 01:13:35.490
We didn't necessarily need our butts kissed when we walked through the door.

01:13:35.490 --> 01:13:38.344
But if you go to most shops now, people greet you when you walk in.

01:13:38.344 --> 01:13:44.300
They work to actually sort of help you refine your pull list or, know, what are you looking for today?

01:13:44.300 --> 01:13:46.167
I can actually give you some recommendations.

01:13:46.167 --> 01:13:47.072
sort of curate it.

01:13:47.072 --> 01:13:47.823
Exactly.

01:13:47.823 --> 01:13:49.243
You don't get that through Amazon.

01:13:49.243 --> 01:13:51.524
You don't get that through Comixology.

01:13:51.524 --> 01:13:55.721
Any of these digital applications, they may say, okay, you read this by Brian K.

01:13:55.721 --> 01:13:55.944
Vaughan.

01:13:55.944 --> 01:13:56.774
Here's another Brian K.

01:13:56.774 --> 01:13:57.809
Vaughan book.

01:13:57.829 --> 01:13:58.609
that's not...

01:13:58.609 --> 01:14:03.981
Pride is a great book, but it doesn't necessarily mean that because I liked Pride, I'm gonna love Saga.

01:14:03.981 --> 01:14:05.082
Right.

01:14:05.082 --> 01:14:05.822
Absolutely.

01:14:05.822 --> 01:14:06.122
Yeah.

01:14:06.122 --> 01:14:08.181
And I want to take a step back just a little bit.

01:14:08.181 --> 01:14:12.100
I know we're getting into this sort of conversation about the comic shop, which I absolutely love.

01:14:12.100 --> 01:14:19.402
But I do want to sort of key in on the process that you went through in order to make this love letter to, you know, our LCS.

01:14:19.702 --> 01:14:23.181
So, again, you crowdfunded this and we talked about it a little bit before the recording.

01:14:23.181 --> 01:14:24.822
I was, of course, a backer of that.

01:14:24.822 --> 01:14:27.962
As soon as I saw Shopping for Superman, it was an immediate fund.

01:14:27.962 --> 01:14:31.381
You know, I think I might have backed whatever tier that gets you the actual Blu-ray.

01:14:31.702 --> 01:14:36.841
So I can't remember off the top of my which one that actually is, but very excited to eventually get that.

01:14:37.242 --> 01:14:43.381
I guess, let me back up a little bit here, going back to San Diego, because I do want to touch on this.

01:14:43.381 --> 01:14:46.006
You mentioned that you won an award at San Diego.

01:14:46.006 --> 01:14:49.082
Oh yeah, one best documentary at San Diego Comic Con.

01:14:49.082 --> 01:14:50.722
Just overall documentary.

01:14:50.722 --> 01:14:52.863
Not just like comics related, but like every documentary.

01:14:52.863 --> 01:14:53.725
Wow.

01:14:54.385 --> 01:14:55.055
That's amazing.

01:14:55.055 --> 01:14:55.945
That's awesome.

01:14:55.945 --> 01:14:57.067
What was that moment for you?

01:14:57.067 --> 01:15:01.109
How did that feel for you in that moment to be up against those other films?

01:15:01.109 --> 01:15:08.386
And then also, I guess it's to be sort of full circle, you know, from the moment you started creating this to now winning awards at the Comic-Con.

01:15:08.386 --> 01:15:16.855
What's crazy to me is 10 years ago, I was a sound recordist for a documentary called uh Animated Life or Floyd Norman, An Animated Life.

01:15:16.855 --> 01:15:18.527
It's about this guy.

01:15:18.527 --> 01:15:19.368
He's amazing.

01:15:19.368 --> 01:15:21.000
He was an art director for Disney.

01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:24.783
uh I could go into his whole career, but this is about me.

01:15:25.694 --> 01:15:26.851
Stop giving other people credit.

01:15:26.851 --> 01:15:27.670
Yeah, exactly.

01:15:27.670 --> 01:15:37.738
I followed him around Comic Con, interviewed him with the director, Michael, and it was an amazing experience to be working at Comic Con, but I wasn't there to enjoy it.

01:15:37.738 --> 01:15:38.840
It was a work day.

01:15:38.840 --> 01:15:45.105
And then 10 years later, I'm back at Comic Con as a guest and winning an award for a movie.

01:15:45.105 --> 01:15:50.229
I should have words for it, and I don't mean to sound schmaltzy or whatever, but it was that.

01:15:50.837 --> 01:15:53.890
It was very emotional and it hit like a ton of bricks.

01:15:53.890 --> 01:15:54.261
Sure.

01:15:54.261 --> 01:15:58.255
I tried to like thank everyone in the crowd and I just kept losing my words.

01:15:58.255 --> 01:15:59.525
My mind kept going blank.

01:15:59.525 --> 01:16:07.953
It was, it felt amazing to be recognized and appreciated by the community that I really, I tried to tailor this for.

01:16:07.953 --> 01:16:16.014
I wanted everyone to like it, but I knew that it was definitely going to be for a uh specific group of people more than anyone else.

01:16:16.014 --> 01:16:17.215
Sure, sure.

01:16:17.215 --> 01:16:21.426
I want to transition a little bit to the actual crowdfunding part of it.

01:16:21.426 --> 01:16:41.247
Now you mentioned there's an intro video on the actual Kickstarter page where you sort of highlight that like you had most of if not the majority of this finished at one point and you felt like you were near the finish line and you really wanted to get this in the hands of distributors and also add some extra graphics and other things like that that you really wanted to make this movie special.

01:16:41.247 --> 01:16:45.770
uh Sort of go through the process of crowdfunding a film.

01:16:45.779 --> 01:16:51.435
And is it something that you would ever recommend to people who also maybe either want to make film or even make comics?

01:16:51.435 --> 01:16:53.832
I know that's really popular on Kickstarter as well.

01:16:54.894 --> 01:16:55.805
Short answer, no.

01:16:55.805 --> 01:16:58.381
Long answer, nope.

01:16:58.381 --> 01:16:59.381
Kidding.

01:17:00.385 --> 01:17:03.408
It's a whole new skill set that I never...

01:17:03.502 --> 01:17:04.962
really planned for.

01:17:04.962 --> 01:17:05.261
Sure.

01:17:05.261 --> 01:17:08.601
When I started making the movie, I thought very naively like I can do this.

01:17:08.601 --> 01:17:10.002
I don't know if that's Dunning Kruger or not.

01:17:10.002 --> 01:17:12.921
But I looked at it and said, I make movies for a living.

01:17:12.921 --> 01:17:14.221
I make TV shows for a living.

01:17:14.221 --> 01:17:15.442
This is going to be cake.

01:17:15.442 --> 01:17:22.282
And then I realized when you're doing all of it, you're kind of Dick Van Dyke and Mary Poppins where you're playing all the instruments at once.

01:17:22.481 --> 01:17:24.542
It's it can be maddening.

01:17:24.542 --> 01:17:27.261
And the biggest limiting factor is money.

01:17:27.261 --> 01:17:30.810
I mean, until I'll give the pandemic credit.

01:17:30.810 --> 01:17:37.399
We have the ability now through Zoom and those applications to actually have video chats.

01:17:37.661 --> 01:17:42.485
I can be anywhere in the country and hire a local shooter and he can.

01:17:42.485 --> 01:18:07.613
pipe the video from his camera directly into zoom and i can see what he's seeing i can hear what he's hearing and say great i don't have to get on a plane with all my stuff trying to save as much money as possible packing my clothes in my tripod bag sure and that was the case for a lot of the time and thankfully dan garino came out with his book about the comic shop while i was working on this and i i just tore through that thing.

01:18:07.613 --> 01:18:08.774
I it a couple of times.

01:18:08.774 --> 01:18:10.194
And then I reached out to him.

01:18:10.194 --> 01:18:11.154
He was gracious.

01:18:11.154 --> 01:18:12.314
I flew out to Columbus.

01:18:12.314 --> 01:18:14.212
Strangely enough, I now live in Ohio.

01:18:14.212 --> 01:18:18.234
And I interviewed him at the Laughing Over, which is now my comic book store.

01:18:18.234 --> 01:18:22.332
But it was this odd, everything fell into place.

01:18:22.332 --> 01:18:27.694
I don't believe in woo woo, whatever stuff, but everything just kind of fell into place when it needed to.

01:18:27.694 --> 01:18:29.134
Because I wanted this thing done.

01:18:29.134 --> 01:18:31.453
It took about 10 years to get everything together.

01:18:31.453 --> 01:18:35.613
Yeah, the film's total budget is a little over $100,000.

01:18:35.819 --> 01:18:38.530
that isn't something I had in my pocket.

01:18:38.530 --> 01:18:45.792
And thankfully, I had shot so many elements that when I pieced it together on a timeline, I could say, okay, I have these gaps.

01:18:45.813 --> 01:19:03.050
Despite what you hear right now, listener, I do not like the word uh or And so there are so many cuts and moments where I say, okay, I need something that goes over this footage because the person speaking would talk for a moment, say um six times.

01:19:03.050 --> 01:19:10.155
or well, you know, and as a viewer myself, when I watch or listen to anything, I'm just thinking, why didn't they take all of that out?

01:19:10.157 --> 01:19:16.974
And so it became kind of a little more sorry, that's a little look behind the oh it's not an interesting look either.

01:19:16.974 --> 01:19:21.177
I don't think it's one of the reasons why I just had this need for footage.

01:19:21.177 --> 01:19:23.829
And I always when you see the film.

01:19:24.170 --> 01:19:25.990
It's a very personal story for me.

01:19:25.990 --> 01:19:29.430
I've had people ask like, why didn't you feature this cover of this book?

01:19:29.430 --> 01:19:32.702
And I'd say because that book didn't mean to me what it means to you.

01:19:32.702 --> 01:19:33.653
Sure.

01:19:33.653 --> 01:19:37.613
There's a combination of film production.

01:19:37.613 --> 01:19:41.234
There's an addition of a little theatrical elements.

01:19:41.234 --> 01:19:50.818
And I tried to make something that was unique because there are other documentaries about comic book shops and how hard this industry is on retailers.

01:19:50.818 --> 01:19:54.939
I didn't see anything that spoke to me was a movie that I wanted to make.

01:19:54.939 --> 01:19:57.702
And so that's very much where this came from.

01:19:57.742 --> 01:20:02.796
The Kickstarter part, to get back to your question, was it wasn't a nightmare.

01:20:02.796 --> 01:20:12.033
I've been very lucky to know certain people who have taken some of these projects on who gave me really good advice and really good counsel.

01:20:12.033 --> 01:20:17.639
Sometimes I didn't always follow it, but with the Kickstarter, I got very ambitious.

01:20:17.639 --> 01:20:21.358
And the person that I spoke with was saying, you're going to want to...

01:20:21.358 --> 01:20:23.797
dial this in, you're not going to want to go crazy.

01:20:23.797 --> 01:20:27.217
Maybe think $20,000 is possible.

01:20:27.318 --> 01:20:28.318
Maybe shoot for 20.

01:20:28.318 --> 01:20:35.158
And I'm thinking 20 is nice, but I can't finish it for 20 because then I'm going to have to do another one of these.

01:20:35.158 --> 01:20:35.438
Right.

01:20:35.438 --> 01:20:38.398
And the people who donated are going to say, well, I already gave you my money.

01:20:38.398 --> 01:20:39.898
Now you need more of my money.

01:20:39.898 --> 01:20:41.417
Yeah, I don't like to waste people's time.

01:20:41.417 --> 01:20:44.637
And I don't want people to ever think I'm trying to take advantage of a situation.

01:20:44.637 --> 01:20:47.417
And so that's why we settled on the number that we did.

01:20:47.417 --> 01:20:52.730
And I'm blown away that we got there only because it is such a niche idea.

01:20:52.730 --> 01:21:04.234
And if someone types in West Easton, I have a decent IMDB page, but nothing that I've directed at this scale, no other documentaries that I've directed, produced, written, edited.

01:21:04.234 --> 01:21:16.637
And so it was a lot of people, think, taking on faith that I could do this and trying to convince them visually, like, trust me, I am doing everything I can to make this as good as possible.

01:21:16.637 --> 01:21:18.868
And the same is true of the Kickstarter.

01:21:19.148 --> 01:21:22.199
That's its own industry though, actually Kickstarter campaigns.

01:21:22.199 --> 01:21:33.025
There are people who you pay them X amount of dollars upfront and then a percentage of the return and they will help coordinate your whole look, feel and everything.

01:21:33.025 --> 01:21:44.481
But the biggest downside to Kickstarter, I'll say you lose so much money to Kickstarter and you end up essentially paying their tax on what you raise.

01:21:44.481 --> 01:21:45.773
So you're paying tax on it.

01:21:45.773 --> 01:21:48.627
You're paying their tax for the money you don't see.

01:21:48.627 --> 01:21:49.838
And it's a great service.

01:21:49.838 --> 01:21:53.862
But if you're aiming for, $50,000, you're not going to see $50,000.

01:21:53.862 --> 01:21:56.554
Exactly.

01:21:56.554 --> 01:21:57.724
They're going to take a chunk.

01:21:57.724 --> 01:22:03.028
And then even the shipping that everyone paid for their rewards, they take a cut of that too.

01:22:03.028 --> 01:22:05.560
So I would have to overcharge shipping, overcharge with it.

01:22:05.560 --> 01:22:17.229
it just feels, unless you have just a hole in one idea, you're going to come up short in some way unless you can raise way more than you actually need.

01:22:17.229 --> 01:22:18.010
Sure.

01:22:18.171 --> 01:22:24.323
So for the film, you obviously are traveling around, going to different comic shops, talking to folks within the industry.

01:22:24.323 --> 01:22:25.595
I'm just curious.

01:22:25.595 --> 01:22:30.417
And I know this this probably could be a large question to ask on the spot.

01:22:30.417 --> 01:22:45.005
Are there a couple of shops that sort of stand out in your mind as like shops that you will not only remember because of this venture that you're going through with shopping for Superman, but ones that when you're in town, wherever that shop may be, you're like, I'm going back to the shop and revisiting.

01:22:45.426 --> 01:22:46.063
Yeah.

01:22:46.063 --> 01:22:53.404
My favorite store from having worked on this project is one that I fell in love with my first trip to New York and that's Forbidden Planet.

01:22:53.404 --> 01:22:55.956
I walked in and just said, this is the vibe.

01:22:55.956 --> 01:22:58.247
This is the clubhouse that I've always wanted.

01:22:58.247 --> 01:23:06.050
Every inch of space has the coolest, newest and oldest, like most interesting array.

01:23:06.542 --> 01:23:10.462
of items and they even tailor their store that way.

01:23:10.502 --> 01:23:11.502
You'll see it.

01:23:11.502 --> 01:23:17.664
the opening shot of the movie is at the time they had the Captain America shield where their door handles.

01:23:18.045 --> 01:23:19.195
Yeah, it was really solid.

01:23:19.195 --> 01:23:27.667
think now it might be the bat symbol or I it's been it's been about a year since I was there so I don't know uh what they're doing now.

01:23:27.667 --> 01:23:30.469
But anyway, I don't want to butcher it.

01:23:30.469 --> 01:23:32.519
Cosmic Monkey in Portland, same idea.

01:23:32.519 --> 01:23:33.362
I walked in.

01:23:33.362 --> 01:23:37.648
I was there to interview uh for books with pictures.

01:23:37.689 --> 01:23:38.590
Love that store.

01:23:38.590 --> 01:23:43.814
It's designed to be an inclusive space for people who aren't traditional comics readers.

01:23:43.975 --> 01:23:46.179
Fantastic idea, fantastic store.

01:23:46.179 --> 01:23:52.846
But then I saw Cosmic down the road and said, I'll poke my head in and awesome.

01:23:52.846 --> 01:23:55.618
It wasn't, I wouldn't say they have more or less.

01:23:55.618 --> 01:23:57.210
product than any other store I've been to.

01:23:57.210 --> 01:23:59.823
But the way it was laid out was considerate.

01:23:59.823 --> 01:24:06.448
The guys working the desk were very pleasant, even though we're all still wearing our masks because COVID is happening.

01:24:07.211 --> 01:24:08.984
it felt like the store for me.

01:24:08.984 --> 01:24:16.917
I know for most people out there, you get that vibe when you walk into a specific store and like, I want to shop here the rest of my life.

01:24:16.917 --> 01:24:17.297
Right.

01:24:17.297 --> 01:24:17.677
Yeah.

01:24:17.677 --> 01:24:25.722
It's like a I know for me it's sort of a mixture of like the smell of old paper and you know sort of the grimier the walls are the better.

01:24:25.722 --> 01:24:29.904
You know more long boxes I see that are half held together the better.

01:24:30.105 --> 01:24:32.027
They usually have a lot of out of print trades.

01:24:32.027 --> 01:24:36.088
There's usually like old porcelain statues like some Bowen statues from the 90s.

01:24:36.088 --> 01:24:38.109
ah It's got like a mixture.

01:24:38.109 --> 01:24:43.932
You know there's no like direct organization in the store especially at like the front desk.

01:24:44.555 --> 01:24:51.458
There are certain things that when I walk in and it's immediate green flag for me that like, OK, I found a great local comic shop.

01:24:51.458 --> 01:25:02.797
Now, I'm not saying that comic shops that don't have all that aren't great shops, but like generally those are like very obvious signs that, I'm to have a good time in here for the next 90 to three hours, 90 minutes to three hours.

01:25:02.797 --> 01:25:07.510
in the show, sorry, the store sort of tells you what it caters to by that effect.

01:25:07.510 --> 01:25:07.960
Right.

01:25:07.960 --> 01:25:17.885
There's a shop in near Columbus that when you walk in, it's pretty bare bones in terms of decoration and uh storage layout.

01:25:17.885 --> 01:25:19.975
But it's very much a collector's paradise.

01:25:19.975 --> 01:25:26.929
When you walk in, you're going to see in the glass cabinets, some awesome books at a reasonable price, nothing too insane.

01:25:26.929 --> 01:25:29.730
The owner is very matter of fact, very straightforward.

01:25:29.730 --> 01:25:33.731
And then you go to other shops where I think they saw enough movies in 80s and 90s.

01:25:33.731 --> 01:25:41.326
And they're like, I'm make it like so and so's bedroom from gremlins or saturate it with with the culture.

01:25:41.326 --> 01:25:44.827
It's gonna look like the hideout from Monster Squad or something.

01:25:45.828 --> 01:25:48.298
So, I don't wanna take up too much of your time, Wes.

01:25:48.298 --> 01:25:53.649
I appreciate you joining me here today, again, at Downtown Comics here in Indianapolis, just to chat about shopping for Superman.

01:25:53.649 --> 01:26:02.694
I'm so excited for you and for the documentary and all the success that you got there in San Diego, but also to actually be able to watch it at some point is something that I'm really excited for.

01:26:03.181 --> 01:26:04.542
Sorry, you are a backer.

01:26:04.542 --> 01:26:07.926
yeah, you're getting is this a long con was the plan to to get me here?

01:26:07.926 --> 01:26:09.105
Like where's my movie?

01:26:09.105 --> 01:26:13.097
I was actually going to was gonna rob you as I didn't when you walked in, you didn't have a bag or anything with you.

01:26:13.097 --> 01:26:14.747
So I was like, well, he probably have a DVD on him.

01:26:14.747 --> 01:26:16.877
uh I am waiting for the Blu-ray.

01:26:16.877 --> 01:26:19.930
That's I think that's what I'm mostly waiting for, because I don't know this.

01:26:19.930 --> 01:26:27.948
I don't mean to like put you on the spot here, but for the Blu-ray backers, is there going to be, you know, special features and commentaries from yourself or whomever?

01:26:27.948 --> 01:26:29.849
That's actually what slowed me down a little bit.

01:26:29.849 --> 01:26:30.259
sure.

01:26:30.259 --> 01:26:33.400
And subtitles through the distribution process.

01:26:33.400 --> 01:26:35.521
I have a company that's making the subtitles for me.

01:26:35.521 --> 01:26:38.483
I want to make sure that's included just because I'm paying so much for it.

01:26:38.483 --> 01:26:40.503
But also the special features.

01:26:40.503 --> 01:26:46.207
I want to do a director's commentary, which will be maddening because I hate hearing my own voice.

01:26:46.207 --> 01:26:46.636
Sure.

01:26:46.636 --> 01:26:48.677
you, everyone that's listening to me talk right now.

01:26:48.677 --> 01:26:51.988
But for me, not the favorite voice out there.

01:26:52.810 --> 01:26:55.291
The special features that I've been trying to put together.

01:26:55.291 --> 01:27:04.676
I want to have something that covers Comic-Con because we shot a little video while we're doing that and just sort of a, you know, the road so far kind of take.

01:27:04.676 --> 01:27:10.989
And it doesn't need to be crazy long, but I want to include something special for the people who value physical media in that way.

01:27:10.989 --> 01:27:16.643
Because you can, if you go to our YouTube channel, I've made derivative videos.

01:27:16.643 --> 01:27:20.204
One of the people I interviewed, Joe Field, he created Free Comic Book Day.

01:27:20.204 --> 01:27:22.112
He told me, you you have.

01:27:22.112 --> 01:27:24.864
some interviews with some people a that aren't with us anymore.

01:27:24.864 --> 01:27:30.389
And B, really cover a lot of bases that maybe you don't use in the movie, you should start cutting these down.

01:27:30.389 --> 01:27:37.695
And I'm thinking, you know how much work this has taken Joe, you know how much of my life, my wife will walk past my office and be like, I thought you were done with that.

01:27:37.695 --> 01:27:40.278
Like, I'm never done with this.

01:27:40.617 --> 01:27:41.860
The mark of a true artist, right?

01:27:41.860 --> 01:27:42.882
Never done.

01:27:43.167 --> 01:27:51.462
In all seriousness, though, it's it's really important stuff what they're saying if and if you really care about the history of the retail industry.

01:27:51.523 --> 01:27:53.463
There's some stuff you've never heard before.

01:27:53.463 --> 01:27:59.987
If you have that goes into greater detail with some of the voices that have been there from the beginning that made it happen.

01:27:59.987 --> 01:28:03.139
And I am working to get more of those out there for the for everybody else.

01:28:03.139 --> 01:28:08.832
But for people who are blind, buying the Blu Ray, I want it owning my own collection of videos.

01:28:08.832 --> 01:28:11.573
I want it to be like the way I treat my movies like it.

01:28:11.573 --> 01:28:12.725
This goes on the shelf.

01:28:12.725 --> 01:28:13.948
It goes on the shelf here.

01:28:13.948 --> 01:28:15.909
I always know where it is because I value it.

01:28:15.909 --> 01:28:20.046
And it's not just what you find in the Walmart 299, Ben, or whatever.

01:28:20.046 --> 01:28:23.072
You to mean something to have that in your home.

01:28:23.118 --> 01:28:25.917
Oh, Wes, I knew that we were cut from the same cloth.

01:28:25.917 --> 01:28:30.137
As I was saying earlier from the trade, you know, shameless brag.

01:28:30.137 --> 01:28:33.997
I also own just about 700 movies, physical movies as well.

01:28:33.997 --> 01:28:39.978
So, you know, it is definitely one of those things that I and part of the reason why I do that and we don't have to talk about this too long.

01:28:39.978 --> 01:28:43.307
But part of the reason why I'm doing this is and I think probably why you're also doing.

01:28:43.307 --> 01:28:48.761
the actual physical release of the film is because I think we've sort of lost our attachment to our media and to our entertainment.

01:28:48.761 --> 01:28:53.717
When everything's on streaming, we sort of just watch whatever's in front of us or whatever we already pay for.

01:28:53.717 --> 01:28:57.105
And when we own it, we can have it.

01:28:57.105 --> 01:29:04.064
We can go and get, we can go watch Superbad or we can go read Jeff John's flash run, because I have it right here.

01:29:04.064 --> 01:29:06.931
I don't have to just read it or watch it because it's convenient to me.

01:29:06.931 --> 01:29:10.698
So I love the fact that you're doing the Blu-ray and I love, again, this sort of...

01:29:10.698 --> 01:29:15.599
I'm trying to like full circle this whole conversation back to the power of the local comic shop.

01:29:15.599 --> 01:29:23.201
um I guess maybe the last question I'll ask you, because again, I don't want to take any more time for you and your Gen Con venture that you're here actually in town for.

01:29:23.201 --> 01:29:36.944
um Is there a particular person on within the documentary that you want listeners of this conversation to sort of key in on and think, wow, you know, from your perspective, that was an incredible conversation.

01:29:36.944 --> 01:29:40.126
And it's one of the most memorable moments of making this film.

01:29:40.547 --> 01:29:45.185
well, I have to be honest, I've seen it so many times now that...

01:29:45.779 --> 01:29:47.942
it would to ask a question about any part of it.

01:29:47.942 --> 01:29:51.524
I can only remember the parts that are flawed in any way.

01:29:51.524 --> 01:29:52.015
sure.

01:29:52.015 --> 01:30:01.764
And that I don't know how that sounds, honestly, but to give you a quick Joe Ferrara, he runs Atlantis Fantasy World down in Santa Cruz.

01:30:01.764 --> 01:30:04.905
And that's famous for it was in the Lost Boys movie.

01:30:04.905 --> 01:30:06.367
That's that's the comic book shop there.

01:30:06.367 --> 01:30:09.279
And Joe is one of those voice.

01:30:09.279 --> 01:30:10.461
He has one of those voices.

01:30:10.461 --> 01:30:16.190
I just I should say that he whatever he says, you just want to sit and listen.

01:30:16.270 --> 01:30:20.264
And when I went to interview him, I was on my way to interview another gentleman, Bud Plant.

01:30:20.264 --> 01:30:22.354
He was part of the direct market.

01:30:22.576 --> 01:30:24.296
Back in the day, one of the distributors.

01:30:24.296 --> 01:30:27.498
So I'm driving up to see him and I figured I'll pop into Joe's store.

01:30:27.498 --> 01:30:30.220
And we talked for about five hours.

01:30:30.220 --> 01:30:32.768
Wow, just rolled the camera and whatever.

01:30:32.768 --> 01:30:35.344
he would say I'd ask him to elaborate here or there.

01:30:35.344 --> 01:30:37.427
And it's I'm so sorry for taking up so much of your time.

01:30:37.427 --> 01:30:38.132
He's like, that's fine.

01:30:38.132 --> 01:30:39.271
I'm here, you know.

01:30:39.271 --> 01:30:48.453
And we talked about everything from Star Trek to running the store and his experience with ordering comics back in the day and how fraught that would be.

01:30:48.453 --> 01:30:50.894
And it meant a lot to me at Comic Con.

01:30:50.894 --> 01:30:58.333
mean, a lot of the people who are in this movie, even locate like people who represent locations that are in this movie were at Comic Con.

01:30:58.333 --> 01:30:58.613
Yeah.

01:30:58.613 --> 01:30:59.814
And Joe was there too.

01:30:59.814 --> 01:31:02.134
And I got to chat with him and catch up.

01:31:02.134 --> 01:31:06.934
And he saw me come and he said, Oh, hey, Wes, I haven't seen him in six years.

01:31:06.934 --> 01:31:08.694
Oh, and he just knew me instantly.

01:31:08.694 --> 01:31:11.154
He said, I've seen the videos, the one of me.

01:31:11.154 --> 01:31:12.793
Is there more of that?

01:31:12.793 --> 01:31:25.574
And I said, Yeah, was gonna make a Oh, you don't have to I just you know I'm curious what's in the movie versus what's on YouTube and sure he really cares about all of this Yeah, you'd be surprised again interviewing folks for the oblivion bar.

01:31:25.574 --> 01:31:55.640
I can tell you that like you think sometimes I'm taking too much of you know, Paul Pope's time or I'm really talking off Michael Conrad's head about his book but these folks want to talk about this stuff, you know, and of course we want to stay cognizant of like taking too much of the time I'm trying to do that right now with you but like at the end of the day you agreed to do this in the same way that they agreed to do, you know shopping for Superman because they want to get out all of these things their experiences their thoughts on that process, their memories, good times, bad times, all the things.

01:31:55.640 --> 01:32:04.094
That's I mean, that that's at the core of why one of the one of the things that kept me going is this is not hard for you and I to talk about this.

01:32:04.094 --> 01:32:13.438
And to talk with shop owners about the shop owners will talk your ear off about the problems with distribution and this that and the other and their experience because they love it.

01:32:13.438 --> 01:32:19.261
I mean, they it's not always the best day they're having, but they truly love talking about this sort of thing.

01:32:19.261 --> 01:32:22.363
And that's why I'm not saying the whole process was easy.

01:32:22.363 --> 01:32:25.064
But that aspect of it, it was always easy.

01:32:25.064 --> 01:32:36.328
I had to in one instance, I had to essentially sit there and ask a person, can you elaborate, I had to coax an answer out because they didn't love it the way every other shop owner I've met did.

01:32:36.328 --> 01:32:36.710
Sure.

01:32:36.710 --> 01:32:44.092
And it was evident just in the conversation, I even I try to romanticize things because it's a it's an easy thing to romanticize, I think.

01:32:44.092 --> 01:32:49.716
And I said, So what what got you to open your own store here and to stay in business for 20 years?

01:32:49.716 --> 01:32:50.626
And he just said money.

01:32:50.626 --> 01:32:53.717
Okay, I think that's our time.

01:32:54.030 --> 01:32:55.845
And I've got lunch, everybody.

01:32:55.845 --> 01:32:56.908
Let's go ahead and hit that.

01:32:56.908 --> 01:32:58.213
Yeah, exactly.

01:32:58.221 --> 01:33:03.362
Yeah, that's interesting to hear anyone say that they got into comics for money is kind of like a it's insane.

01:33:03.362 --> 01:33:06.221
It's it's like a juxtaposition to the art form.

01:33:06.221 --> 01:33:09.502
But OK, well, Wes, thank you so much for joining me here today.

01:33:09.502 --> 01:33:11.981
It truly is an honor to sit here and chat with you again.

01:33:11.981 --> 01:33:14.481
As I said earlier, I'll just sort of butter you up one last time.

01:33:14.481 --> 01:33:25.381
Very, very happy with what you've done with shopping for Superman, excited to eventually watch it, excited for people to eventually get their hands on this and then also just continue to shout that this thing is a thing from the megaphone.

01:33:25.381 --> 01:33:31.661
That's part of the reason why I wanted to have you here today is so we could sort put a spotlight on this for our listenership.

01:33:31.661 --> 01:33:38.309
know, while it may not be Joe Rogan numbers, we have, I think, a pretty nice listenership of folks who love comics.

01:33:38.309 --> 01:33:42.381
And, you know, I want to make them aware of shopping for Superman.

01:33:42.381 --> 01:33:45.521
On that note, have you ever taken DMT?

01:33:45.942 --> 01:33:49.612
Sorry, there's the give Joe Rogan like, get these numbers out.

01:33:49.612 --> 01:33:52.742
I was going to you some ayahuasca at some point, but you know, it's totally up to you.

01:33:52.742 --> 01:33:53.796
It's your comfortability.

01:33:53.796 --> 01:33:54.578
So that is.

01:33:54.578 --> 01:33:56.729
Yeah, I'm really terrible at this.

01:33:56.729 --> 01:34:15.434
So I'm gonna just sorry push this in shopping for Superman calm Yeah, pre-order the movie the blu-ray you can also see some of our progress so far you can follow us on the socials just search for shopping for Superman and You'll see what we're up to right now How can people follow, if people want to follow you specifically, is that something you want to throw out there?

01:34:15.434 --> 01:34:18.926
Or do want people to just follow the shopping for Superman socials and such?

01:34:18.926 --> 01:34:21.265
I think you can find me if you type in Westeastern.

01:34:21.265 --> 01:34:21.466
Sure.

01:34:21.466 --> 01:34:24.786
My Facebook I keep private because occasionally I drink and post.

01:34:24.786 --> 01:34:25.166
Sure.

01:34:25.166 --> 01:34:28.645
And so the next day I'm like, why did I have a problem with that?

01:34:28.645 --> 01:34:30.204
You know, like I'm going to take that.

01:34:30.204 --> 01:34:32.365
typing like Doomsday Clock was a good book.

01:34:32.365 --> 01:34:32.735
Exactly.

01:34:32.735 --> 01:34:36.471
Well, the other day my wife was like, why are you asking about Benghazi?

01:34:36.471 --> 01:34:37.766
I'm like, did we ever figure it out?

01:34:37.766 --> 01:34:40.122
That was my I just want to did we figure it out?

01:34:40.122 --> 01:34:41.783
Yeah, just stop man.

01:34:41.783 --> 01:34:46.564
Well Wes, it's been great talking to you I appreciate it and uh We'll let you go back to Gen Con.

01:34:46.564 --> 01:34:54.828
Enjoy yourself And hopefully we can talk to you full form at some point down the road You possibly on the oblivion bar when you have some time once shopping for Superman is officially out.

01:34:54.828 --> 01:34:55.481
I'd love that.

01:34:55.481 --> 01:35:06.547
All right, Alrighty, there's that conversation with West Easton again Thank you West for coming on the show and thank you so much for giving us an early screener of shopping for Superman Can't brag about it enough.

01:35:06.547 --> 01:35:09.046
I think it's great Aaron I'm glad you enjoyed it.

01:35:09.046 --> 01:35:13.390
hope people go and listen to this conversation and go watch this at some point.

01:35:13.390 --> 01:35:13.970
for sure.

01:35:13.970 --> 01:35:15.489
Again, agree.

01:35:16.149 --> 01:35:24.289
Multiple times I agree with you saying that this needs to be like required, you know, required education for the new comic book.

01:35:24.289 --> 01:35:30.829
Anybody new in the comic book industry, anybody that wants to be in the comic industry, this is an important thing for them to watch and understand.

01:35:30.829 --> 01:35:33.485
And that way, you know what you're getting yourself into.

01:35:33.485 --> 01:35:34.345
All right.

01:35:34.345 --> 01:35:37.587
Well, that'll do it for episode 207 of the Oblivion Bar podcast.

01:35:37.587 --> 01:35:38.707
That'll do pig.

01:35:38.707 --> 01:35:43.309
Next week on the show, we'll be talking to writer and artist of Bridge Planet Nine.

01:35:43.309 --> 01:35:45.019
Jared Thorne is going to be on the show.

01:35:45.019 --> 01:35:48.260
His first published work through Top Shelf is it's incredible.

01:35:48.260 --> 01:35:56.752
Everybody again, Jared reached out to us and you know, Aaron, we are lucky enough to get emails from folks, creators that want to come onto the show.

01:35:56.752 --> 01:35:59.792
It's really hard to not get every single person on here at some point.

01:35:59.792 --> 01:36:09.100
But when I saw what Jared is doing with with Bridge Planet Nine, this sci-fi, incredible black and white first work from him over at Top Shelf.

01:36:09.100 --> 01:36:10.800
We couldn't not get him on the show.

01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:14.301
So it is a good problem to have.

01:36:14.301 --> 01:36:20.222
Again, I hope that doesn't sound braggy, but like it is one of those things that it's, it's, we just can't, we can't get everybody on the show.

01:36:20.222 --> 01:36:22.252
Jared was somebody who we had to have on the show.

01:36:22.252 --> 01:36:23.684
So very excited.

01:36:23.684 --> 01:36:25.564
And also we should brag really quickly.

01:36:25.564 --> 01:36:26.804
talking to Todd McFarlane.

01:36:26.804 --> 01:36:28.635
We're recording this on September 14th.

01:36:28.635 --> 01:36:31.065
We're talking to Todd McFarlane tomorrow, Boom.

01:36:31.065 --> 01:36:31.905
Very exciting.

01:36:31.905 --> 01:36:33.046
Very, very exciting.

01:36:33.046 --> 01:36:34.247
Not boom, Aaron.

01:36:35.509 --> 01:36:39.814
I said, boom, like dropping the mic or like, but like, it's not boom studios.

01:36:39.814 --> 01:36:40.985
So nevermind.

01:36:40.985 --> 01:36:42.250
It's a little of a joke.

01:36:42.250 --> 01:36:43.104
Yeah, okay.

01:36:43.104 --> 01:36:43.636
It was good.

01:36:43.636 --> 01:36:44.980
just did one of things.

01:36:45.003 --> 01:36:46.126
Wait a minute.

01:36:46.126 --> 01:36:47.587
I will not go over my head.

01:36:47.587 --> 01:36:48.967
will catch it.

01:36:48.985 --> 01:36:51.009
My reflexes are too fast.

01:36:52.310 --> 01:36:57.725
Okay, Subscribe to our podcast, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, I said that correctly.

01:36:57.725 --> 01:37:01.578
Audible, iHeartRadio, wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, that's where we are.

01:37:01.578 --> 01:37:20.972
Thank you to our patrons, Alice, Erin, Bodder, Brennan, Brennan, Brett, Chris S, Chris Y, Christy, David, Elliot, Erica, George, Gianni, Greg, Haley, Ham6, Jake, Jeremy, Joe, John Justin, Kyle, Kristen, Lozi, Mac, Mike, Olivia, Ryan I, Robert, Saunter, Sebastian, Sean, Travis, Tyler, Zach, and Brandon, Lisa.

01:37:21.113 --> 01:37:30.920
If you want to support the show without spending any money following your preferred podcasting platform and a five star rating and or review on Apple podcasts and Spotify helps the show a ton.

01:37:30.920 --> 01:37:34.722
Follow us on Blue Sky, Instagram, TikTok and Twitch at Oblivion Bar Pod.

01:37:34.722 --> 01:37:38.524
Official merch for the show can be found on our website, oblivionbarpodcast.com.

01:37:38.626 --> 01:37:45.006
you to Onypress for, well, thank you to Onypress and Endless Comics and Cards for sponsoring the show.

01:37:45.006 --> 01:37:47.326
Thank you, KXD Studios for all of our Believe in Bar Art.

01:37:47.326 --> 01:37:49.145
He's at KXD Graphics on Instagram.

01:37:49.145 --> 01:37:52.326
Thank you, Dream Kid for all of our musical themes.

01:37:52.326 --> 01:37:54.485
DJ Skyvac for our grid theme.

01:37:54.485 --> 01:38:00.805
And last but not least, do not forget to your bartenders 20 % or more or else.

01:38:00.952 --> 01:38:02.786
All right, everybody.

01:38:02.786 --> 01:38:04.381
Thank you so much for joining us here for episode 207.

01:38:04.381 --> 01:38:08.210
We will see you next week for episode 208.