INTERVIEW: Paul Pope

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Hey, this is Paul Pope, comic book creator behind such award-winning books as Battling Boy, Batman Year 100, Heavy Liquid 100%.

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You are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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you Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles.

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Hello everyone and welcome to episode 198 of the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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I am Chris Hacker, one of your co-hosts here and joining me is my BFF, Aaron Knowles.

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What is up?

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What is up?

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What is up?

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Welcome everybody.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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Everybody.

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Thank you so much for being here this week.

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As you can see, as you clicked on this episode, you already know what's happening.

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Big, big guest today.

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are joined by the one and only Aaron, Paul Pope.

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Now.

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We've talked about this a little bit in private, but I do want to share with the listeners here that when we were approached, we were approached to talk to pop up.

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I'll just say that personally.

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It's it's a shameless brag.

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I will say humble brag and uh it feels that's yes.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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And it was uh an easy.

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Yes.

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It was an immediate yes.

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And when they asked us to sort of center our conversation around a particular topic, which was his actual exhibit over at the Philippe Le Bon gallery there in New York City.

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I was like, double yes.

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Like, of course, why would I not want to talk to Paul Pope about his month long exhibit there in New York City?

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So a lot of people who are playing this episode probably already know who Paul Pope is, but just as a quick refresher, and I go over it quite a bit during the actual conversation here and 100 % Ascapo battling boy, THB, heavy liquid, Batman, your 100.

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many, many other things.

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Paul Pope, one of the singular voices in comics and what an absolute pleasure it was to get him here on the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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And Aaron, I'll warn you, I'll warn the listener here.

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And I mean this with a giant grain of salt.

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This conversation is a little erratic.

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Okay.

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It's a little bit all over the place.

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And I think anybody who has been listening to the Oblivion Bar for a long time that will tell you that I have a pretty strict transcript.

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Aaron, you know this, of course, I like to stick to the questions, right?

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might call him a little anal.

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But that's okay.

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We call him type A.

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And I'm used to that.

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You've adjusted and I appreciate you for doing that.

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Uh, and, you know, Paul, him and I meeting for the first time and we immediately hit it off the moment we got on camera together.

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I had to like hurry up and press record because he was one of those guys that wanted to like start talking immediately, which is so great.

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Right.

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Uh, but this conversation, we go down a lot of, what do you like to call it Aaron?

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call it a side quest side quest.

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Thank you.

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Yes.

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We got a lot of side quests.

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I'm very grateful for that because this experience with Paul Pope is one that I think And I'm not trying to butter him up or, know, this conversation up too much is one that I will remember for as long as we have the show for as long as I live, because what an incredible guy, just immediately just super warm, very inviting, very open, generous with his time, all the things excited to talk about this exhibit there at the Philippe LeBlanc.

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Just incredible.

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I feel like you're giving him like, yes, credit is deserved and credit is goes where it's due.

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But I got to say that Chris, you're one of those people.

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I think that, you know, we just recently got a couple of compliments from our Patreon members that you that we are good interviewers.

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And I think that that's because not only, especially in this context, not only do we interview well, but we're also like we're good listeners, we're people, people, people.

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You know, and people want to open up to you.

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They want to open up to me.

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And like, we have great conversations because people aren't just stuck in these like rigid, you know, like, they want to ask the same thing.

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Like, who's your favorite superhero?

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Who's your favorite hero that you've done?

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What do you want to do?

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Who's your, who's your dream team when it comes to creating a book, et cetera?

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No, we like, we care and we generally are like want to know more about the people that were.

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we're talking to and they know that they can sense that.

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I think it makes them, it puts them at ease because there's so many conversations they could be in and they don't do what happened during this conversation, which is go on those little side quests, segue into weird things, uh, talk about, you know, murder, sex gore stuff with, you know, Patrick Horvath, et cetera.

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Like we, we can ask these questions because they know that we're not asking out of uh a weird place or just to get the interview done.

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We're asking because we're fans.

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And I think that that was uh communicated very well in this interview because he opens up to you so easily.

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Yeah, you know, if we're going to fart sniff a little bit here, I will say that we, we like to do a little, um, there's a lot of grab ass in our conversation.

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They'll say that it's a lot of joking around.

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It's a lot of just some, we like, when we reach out to creators, everybody that's listening, we like to, we don't often frame it as an interview.

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We frame it as a conversation.

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Like when I, when I reach out to publishers, I'm like, would so and so like to come on for a conversation, uh, where there are going to be questions that are sort of formatted in an interview style.

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But I think.

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where we slightly differ from maybe other shows.

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I think David Harper does a really good job of this.

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Brad and Lisa over at Comical Couples Counseling, Bauder over the short box, many others where it's framed as a conversation.

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think that that's a lot more enjoyable than, as you said, asking them if you could pick between Batman and Spider-Man, who would you rather draw or write or whatever.

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That's just not interesting.

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It's not fun conversation.

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I'd rather much, I'd much rather talk about a lot of things that we talk about in this conversation with Paul, which is like, he is known as Aaron and I don't know if you know this or not.

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He's known as the comics destroyer.

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That's his nickname in comics.

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And that nickname comes from the fact that he has the desire to not play into those worn out tropes within comics, to not follow the same path, take the, take the road less traveled.

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And I've always respected about his career.

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And that's actually the first question that we get into when we sit down together, Paul and I, and he gives an incredible answer.

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And then again, as I mentioned a moment ago, it just kind of goes all over the place.

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And you, I'm sure you guys can probably feel that I keep trying to pull Paul back in and then he just keeps going back out.

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And this is not a complaint.

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I'm so, so grateful for him and his.

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I was just happy to be there with him.

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And I think people are going to really, really enjoy this conversation with again, five time Eisner winner, New York times bestseller, one of the greatest, and I'm not saying this lightly Aaron, capital G greatest comic book creators of all time, Paul Pope.

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So.

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Well, let's, let's end the preamble.

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Let's go through the, house housekeeping notes and get to this conversation, buddy.

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Let's do it.

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you want to actually tell you what Aaron, since you're not in the conversation, why don't you tell the folks how they can support the podcast.

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Thank you.

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Actually, if you want to support the Oblivion Bar podcast, you can skinder checking out our Patreon for your support.

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can gain access to bonus episodes each week, which we call The Grid, which we actually recently got just done doing a behind the scenes look at how we prepare for each episode, each conversation with our show notes, our transcripts.

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So you can see those.

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uh Patreon polls, giveaways, exclusive goodies, comics, etc.

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We have so much and I'm excited to hear what you guys think of this conversation because we have conversations with our Patreon members, aka our programs over on the grid and it's a great time all the way down to New Zealand.

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So give it a shot with a seven day free trial at patreon.com forward slash.

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believe me in bar pond or you can check out the link in the show notes, but either way, get over there, check it out.

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You know, it's a good time.

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Yeah.

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Last thing I'll do to like set up this conversation is wait for when Paul starts talking about Mobius everybody.

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That's, I think I don't need to really say anything else besides that.

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Just there is conversation about Paul and his conversations with Mobius at one point when Mobius was still around.

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And I think that that alone, along with again, everything else that we get to, uh, is well worth it for this conversation.

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So without further ado, let's go ahead and get this conversation with Paul Pope.

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This episode is brought to you by Oni Press.

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And now, this week's special guest.

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Joining me today is the five time Eisner Award winning comic book creator, New York Times bestseller, and one of the singular voices in the medium of comic books.

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His work includes 100%, A Scopo, Battling Boy, THB, Heavy Liquid, and Batman Year 100.

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It is my absolute honor to welcome the one and only Paul Pope onto the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Hello everyone, it's Grant Zepeda.

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What an honor, man.

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It's so great to have you here on the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Thank you so much for taking some time to come here and chat with us.

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And, you know, to be honest, I'd love to start our chat, this conversation with a little bit of an examination of a nickname that I've often seen attached to you and your work, which is the Comics Destroyer.

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All right.

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You've said in a conversation with Hazlitt back in 2021 that you had a desire to discard all inflated and worn out edicts, only serve to keep the medium of comics in stasis.

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So with resources to aspiring comic creators that seemingly are everywhere in 2025, my question for you is, do you think young creators should be following any specific playbook on how to get into comics?

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Or do you think there continues to be value in the rebellious walk the road of less traveled route?

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Great question to start with.

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I don't think young cartoonists need to think too much about what it is they're supposed to be.

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You know, when I started out, when I was a kid in school, I remember I sat time with time with my sculpture professor.

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We were doing clay sculptures and metal and stuff like that.

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And he's like, well, what do you want to be?

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I'm like, well, I think I'm a romantic realist.

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Because I think when you're a kid, you always think like, I have to be this or that.

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And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're not, you're not old enough to know what you are.

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Just experiment.

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Just try things out.

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Just try things out.

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And that's what I would say to you on cartoonist because I mean, comics looks really alluring and you know, kind of like sexy, I guess you'd say like from the outside, but it's actually a lot of work.

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So unless you're willing to kind of like get into the meat potatoes of it, I wouldn't recommend it.

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I mean, you might be better off as an art director.

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or an advertising person, photographer, you know, it could be a lot of things.

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So I think when you're a young artist, I think it's important to just experiment and try to find what fits.

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And you can define yourself later.

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You don't need to decide what you want.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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What are your thoughts on like the emulation of, I would say writers, artists, inkers color.

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mean, just anyone in the comic book medium, they find a hero they really love and they just very closely follow that track, whether it be house style or otherwise.

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Is there any value in that in the beginning or do you find that like, you know, at some point you do have to find your own road and find your own voice.

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It's a great question.

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think it depends on what type of artist you want to be.

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In my case, I wanted a hybrid style that had a bit of the European masters, Japanese masters, American masters.

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And I just tried to find like a new voice, a new idiom.

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You know, some people like, just really wanted to draw, at least in the old days, they wanted to draw like John Byrne or they wanted to draw like Frank Miller.

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And so they found a style which worked because they got the jobs that Frank Miller didn't want.

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Sure.

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But I think the challenge is to find a voice that's different.

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Why did Mobius decide to become Mobius?

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He already had a successful career as a Western cartoonist, Jean Giraud.

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He already had that.

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He worked in a tradition in Europe, but there's something in him.

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It broke out of the shell, and was like he has to become something different.

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think Kirby did the same thing.

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He could have easily had a career just making Captain America from Lesnys.

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It kept going, kept going, kept going.

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And that to me is the interesting ingredient, the germ of comics.

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The thing that makes it a very special medium, you know?

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And I've always tried to stay true to that.

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Yeah, it's pretty prevalent too.

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think anybody who's followed your, followed your career, uh, through the last three decades, they could tell you that there is no other Paul Pope.

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And I don't think that, uh, I don't know if anyone's really trying to, necessarily, uh, you know, try to follow that same track, but I do, I really, honestly, I'm so incredibly impressed, not only with your knowledge of the medium and how much you just, you know, your heroes.

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And we'll talk about some of those here in just a moment, but how much you purposefully stray away from that route.

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That was Something I really wanted to key in on on this conversation is how you are aware of the greats.

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You know, they're, they're print in the medium and yet you have almost dug your own hole just in this corner over here in the comic medium that is so you, it's just you by yourself.

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it's crazy.

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I've never thought about this, but, um, all of them, if I take my three of my Mount Rushmore's Frank Miller, Toth, Alex Toth, and Mobius, they all said the same thing.

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I never met Kirby, sadly.

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They all said the same thing.

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They said, don't do what I did.

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Like just go your way, go your own way, go your own way.

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And I took that seriously.

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like, wow, it's amazing.

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Like I got to meet one of my heroes and like, he told me, don't do what I did.

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Okay, well I'm gonna go think about that for a bit.

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And then I want to listen to some jazz and I'm gonna listen to some, I don't know, Soundgarden, whatever it might be.

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And then like think up something.

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And I think that's what they did, right?

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Because like, for example, Frank Miller loves Milton Kniff and so do I.

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You know, the classic American cartoon of...

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I have a question about Milton here in just a moment.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Well, okay.

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Great.

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I'm glad.

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Okay.

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So I preempted it.

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Great.

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So we, Frank and I sat down together.

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We're looking at Milton Kenneth.

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He's got a piece in his house.

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I'm like, look at this, how he did that.

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And it's like this certain technique he had with Rush.

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Like, know, how do think he did that?

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And we talk about it and it's like his, his approach to that same style is different from mine, but it's like, we're both looking at this apex.

00:16:29.933 --> 00:16:35.134
And I really, it's like, man, it's like, don't even know if he remembers, but he told me like, don't do it like I did.

00:16:35.134 --> 00:16:35.553
Yeah.

00:16:35.553 --> 00:16:36.413
You're on there.

00:16:36.413 --> 00:16:39.933
And that's what I say to younger guys when I meet them all the time.

00:16:40.153 --> 00:16:46.413
Younger, I mean, guys, sorry, is what we say, but.

00:16:48.750 --> 00:16:50.629
It's just a broad, here's the thing.

00:16:50.629 --> 00:16:55.629
We're both Midwest guys, guys, like we're actual guys, like being in Midwest, everyone's a guy.

00:16:55.629 --> 00:16:57.309
Everything's a Coke or soda.

00:16:57.309 --> 00:16:59.129
it's, it's, it's a term.

00:16:59.129 --> 00:16:59.725
know what I mean?

00:16:59.725 --> 00:17:01.153
Okay, good, okay, good.

00:17:01.153 --> 00:17:02.096
I grew up in Ohio.

00:17:02.096 --> 00:17:03.669
We can talk about that if you want.

00:17:03.669 --> 00:17:04.329
Absolutely.

00:17:04.329 --> 00:17:07.152
And you know, you, you mentioned Milton Kniff a moment ago.

00:17:07.152 --> 00:17:16.257
I have to say very quickly, and I know the, if the listeners listening to this are watching this on YouTube, they'll be able to see this, but I'm, currently wearing one of your friend's shirts here, which is Bill Stinkovic here.

00:17:16.257 --> 00:17:17.387
It's a classic.

00:17:17.387 --> 00:17:17.607
yeah.

00:17:17.607 --> 00:17:18.167
Yeah.

00:17:18.167 --> 00:17:18.367
Spider.

00:17:18.367 --> 00:17:18.888
It's amazing.

00:17:18.888 --> 00:17:19.199
Yeah.

00:17:19.199 --> 00:17:27.303
And then I also, I don't know if you can see this here, but I actually have a Mobius here on my arm from silver surfer parable.

00:17:27.423 --> 00:17:27.733
Yeah.

00:17:27.733 --> 00:17:28.183
Very cool.

00:17:28.183 --> 00:17:29.884
So I'm obviously a big fan as well.

00:17:29.884 --> 00:17:35.478
And you know, speaking of again, We're going to trans you perfectly set me up for the Milton Kniff conversation here.

00:17:35.478 --> 00:17:39.738
You've mentioned obviously many times a major influence on you and your work.

00:17:39.738 --> 00:17:41.958
I've even seen, and I don't know if you've ever talked about this.

00:17:41.958 --> 00:17:46.278
I'm sure you have a little bit of his signature typography in your signature as well.

00:17:46.278 --> 00:17:47.182
Is that purposeful?

00:17:47.182 --> 00:17:50.382
Yeah, because that's something Alex told me early on.

00:17:50.382 --> 00:17:55.142
He's like, look, kid, if you're going to try to be a cartoonist, you have to be able to letter.

00:17:55.300 --> 00:17:59.402
And he's like, it's going to be as hard as it is to cartoon.

00:17:59.662 --> 00:18:01.321
And he's like, just practice.

00:18:01.321 --> 00:18:05.122
And he's like, literally, like, it was like, felt like was talking to my granddad.

00:18:05.122 --> 00:18:09.541
Practice your A's, practice your B's, practice your C's.

00:18:09.741 --> 00:18:10.701
And they're terrible.

00:18:10.701 --> 00:18:12.362
I'd sent them to him and I'd be like, how does this look?

00:18:12.362 --> 00:18:15.862
He's like, well, this is okay, but like, you can do this better over here.

00:18:16.683 --> 00:18:26.098
You know, there was a point where I feel like when we work in Arbel or DC, mainstream comics don't really do hand-lettered comics too much anymore.

00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:31.202
Unless it's an unusual situation like I made when I did Wednesday comics.

00:18:31.202 --> 00:18:34.104
I made an argument for why it should be badly lettered.

00:18:35.204 --> 00:18:44.369
But otherwise it's pristine and people just read comics with comic book lettering, which is part of an idiom now that people speak.

00:18:44.587 --> 00:18:48.021
I don't think they think too much about whether or not it's hand letter or something.

00:18:48.021 --> 00:18:51.555
But also I'm dyslexic and I'm left handed.

00:18:51.555 --> 00:18:58.632
So because I write and draw with a brush, I have to work from the right side to the left side.

00:18:58.692 --> 00:19:00.814
So I learned how to write backwards.

00:19:00.814 --> 00:19:02.935
Oh wow, that's fascinating.

00:19:02.935 --> 00:19:03.426
That is cool.

00:19:03.426 --> 00:19:08.817
that's, but it's also useful because that means that your autograph can never be replicated.

00:19:08.817 --> 00:19:09.420
Sure.

00:19:09.420 --> 00:19:09.730
Yeah.

00:19:09.730 --> 00:19:11.922
And I've actually seen you sign some of your work.

00:19:11.922 --> 00:19:20.386
You obviously did that incredible as we just spoke about that really amazing Paul Pope typography, then also you, you often will stamp it with a red stamp.

00:19:20.386 --> 00:19:21.998
was curious what that was.

00:19:22.061 --> 00:19:26.201
Um, I have a number of them at this point, you know, it's what they call a hanko.

00:19:26.201 --> 00:19:27.701
It's a Japanese stamp.

00:19:27.701 --> 00:19:29.261
I've got a number of them.

00:19:29.261 --> 00:19:30.801
I'll grab one in fact.

00:19:30.801 --> 00:19:31.301
Sure.

00:19:31.301 --> 00:19:31.561
Hang on.

00:19:31.561 --> 00:19:32.721
I'll grab it in a second.

00:19:32.721 --> 00:19:51.422
Back in the day, the tradition of Japanese woodblock printmaking meant that every time you sold a print, uh, the person who bought the print from you or the gallery that brought it from you had a stamp, which was sort of like an executor's sign say like, yes, this was bought by this gallery.

00:19:51.438 --> 00:19:53.198
at search or blah, blah.

00:19:53.397 --> 00:19:59.317
And in the old days, the artists would have a block and they would break it out for a certain point.

00:19:59.317 --> 00:20:01.978
So it just kind of a tradition I picked up.

00:20:01.978 --> 00:20:07.397
Well, this is my latest, uh, it's Chinese actually, but it's the same idea.

00:20:07.656 --> 00:20:09.958
I wanted a large, a larger print.

00:20:09.958 --> 00:20:10.377
Sure.

00:20:10.377 --> 00:20:10.857
can buy it.

00:20:10.857 --> 00:20:14.417
can buy the, you're a cartoonist, you want to buy one online, can buy these.

00:20:14.417 --> 00:20:20.599
Uh, my first ones I actually got in Tokyo and then, you know, you just get a little.

00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:29.710
thing of like the oil based red ink and red paint and then you stamp it and then you know that lasts forever.

00:20:29.710 --> 00:20:30.431
That's amazing.

00:20:30.431 --> 00:20:30.790
love that.

00:20:30.790 --> 00:20:36.009
I think now that I think about it, because I've seen David Mack a couple of times at comic shows, he does that as well.

00:20:36.009 --> 00:20:36.420
Correct?

00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:37.810
uh Yeah.

00:20:37.810 --> 00:20:39.144
That's I mean, that's so incredible.

00:20:39.144 --> 00:20:40.430
And it's so unique to.

00:20:40.430 --> 00:20:49.009
It is, it's because I think it's becoming a little more commonplace, but I think like Mac and I, we're like cousins of art.

00:20:49.730 --> 00:20:53.289
know, I think he and I gravitated toward the same type of thing.

00:20:53.289 --> 00:20:58.890
And there's something about Japanese printmaking that's so organic and so interesting.

00:20:58.890 --> 00:21:12.545
And then to really dive more deeply into the history of what it means to have an imprint or a stamp on a print or a piece of art, you know, It shows a history of where it goes.

00:21:12.545 --> 00:21:14.815
And even the impressionists had that as well.

00:21:14.815 --> 00:21:34.881
You know, I think that that's the beautiful synergy between European and Japanese work or Asian art in general would be when the Europeans started to see Japanese like flat printmaking and the kind of stuff that inspired Degas or Marie Cassatt, these different artists that, you know, were really great.

00:21:34.881 --> 00:21:45.354
It's continuing back and forth between the the lineage, know, it's like, like fire fireworks toward you fireworks toward me fireworks for you.

00:21:45.710 --> 00:21:48.930
I feel like this speaks to a larger theme that I've seen.

00:21:48.930 --> 00:21:50.471
You're doing research for this conversation.

00:21:50.471 --> 00:21:55.944
I've heard you talk a lot about how you like to capture this sort of uh emotion with your work.

00:21:55.944 --> 00:22:08.240
It's something like, I think in a conversation I read from you, you were talking about how work that you did when you were a kid and when you were a teenager and then when you were in college or just as an adult.

00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:10.731
And then as you continue to work as an artist.

00:22:10.753 --> 00:22:16.560
There's lot of value in each of those because your perspective has changed with each one of those pieces.

00:22:16.560 --> 00:22:18.482
And I just found that so interesting.

00:22:18.482 --> 00:22:25.880
And then I feel like this speaks to a larger, with the stamp as well, it just speaks to sort of the building blocks of being an artist.

00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:26.911
Yeah, for sure.

00:22:26.911 --> 00:22:34.695
think about it, you know, like, you know, like I pay attention to my dreams and I read Carl Jung and, you know, pay attention to this type of stuff.

00:22:34.695 --> 00:22:41.861
And like, I think about the sort of stuff I dreamt about when I was a kid and like how that, how that did evolve over time.

00:22:41.861 --> 00:22:52.868
Like, you know, there was a phase when I was maybe 12 or 13 and I was just enamored with John Byrne and, know, like Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum.

00:22:52.868 --> 00:22:58.201
And that was like my sense of like, grandiosity and like mythology and things.

00:22:58.201 --> 00:23:04.826
And then you get a little older, you start reading all the things and then like new influences start coming in, but you don't lose that early thing.

00:23:04.826 --> 00:23:06.666
That thing still stays there.

00:23:06.728 --> 00:23:09.388
So it's like, okay, I'm going to keep building on this.

00:23:09.410 --> 00:23:17.816
so you're right to that's actually, it's interesting that you bring that up because the staff is sort of like, this is who I am now.

00:23:18.257 --> 00:23:19.528
And this is what I've done.

00:23:19.528 --> 00:23:21.568
This is everything I am at this point.

00:23:21.568 --> 00:23:22.480
Boom.

00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:25.089
And then if you're bold enough, you break it.

00:23:25.089 --> 00:23:35.377
You break the block and then it's like after this point, no more blocks will be signed at this Just what an incredible stamp on this, on that, on that point there, right?

00:23:35.377 --> 00:23:58.670
Like, a physical, like a metaphorical and physical stamp on this whole thing is that, uh, and then I'm not, go, I don't want to compare the two, like, uh, this podcast to me feels like each episode is like a, like a miniature stamp because I'm building off of my knowledge and my love of the medium with each one of these conversations, know, our very first interview in oblivion bar history was in 2020 and it was with Philip Kennedy Johnson.

00:23:58.670 --> 00:24:09.609
writer relatively newish writer in the medium and I remember thinking man, I was so nervous and just unsure and very just Insecure even in that conversation.

00:24:09.609 --> 00:24:24.059
I felt really prepared but still just didn't feel like I had the goods, you know And then here I am today five years later on July 1st 2025 talking to you know and again I don't mean to butter you up too much here in this conversation because I want to continue to have a normal conversation but No, I'm cool, dude.

00:24:24.059 --> 00:24:24.857
Don't worry about it.

00:24:24.857 --> 00:24:26.184
I'm cool.

00:24:26.184 --> 00:24:27.678
I know who I There you go.

00:24:27.678 --> 00:24:28.048
love that.

00:24:28.048 --> 00:24:28.459
There you go.

00:24:28.459 --> 00:24:29.469
That's what I wanted to hear.

00:24:29.469 --> 00:24:30.299
Paul, you were the man.

00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:35.493
uh One of my old timers, you know, and I felt totally confident.

00:24:35.493 --> 00:24:45.789
I even thought about it right before you popped on camera that like, I'm just excited to pick your brain, which is crazy to think that like there's that growth there, you know, and I think everyone can take something from that.

00:24:45.902 --> 00:24:46.902
Well, same with me, man.

00:24:46.902 --> 00:24:53.741
I remember there was a time when I was hanging out in the 90s when I went to San Diego Comic-Con.

00:24:53.741 --> 00:24:55.362
Brian Talbot, remember him?

00:24:55.362 --> 00:24:58.981
did that book called One Bad Rat.

00:24:59.442 --> 00:25:04.001
And he's kind of an Alan Moore umbrella of artists.

00:25:04.082 --> 00:25:05.561
And he just looked so cool.

00:25:05.561 --> 00:25:07.281
I was like, man, this dude looks cool.

00:25:07.281 --> 00:25:13.281
And he was wearing a silk shirt, black silk shirt, black slacks, nice hair.

00:25:13.281 --> 00:25:14.605
And here I am on Scruff.

00:25:14.605 --> 00:25:21.445
from Columbus, Ohio, listening to my grunge and whatever the fuck we did back then.

00:25:21.445 --> 00:25:25.365
Like, man, one day, one day I'm going to be a cool guy like that.

00:25:25.365 --> 00:25:32.925
And like, I'm just happy to sit at the table and like talk to him about deep did go or whatever we talked about.

00:25:33.342 --> 00:25:35.303
I think you've gotten there, Paul.

00:25:35.303 --> 00:25:37.144
I'll be...

00:25:39.025 --> 00:25:43.884
I want to go back though, just a little bit, because we got a little off track with the stamps because we were talking...

00:25:43.884 --> 00:25:44.258
No, no, no.

00:25:44.258 --> 00:25:45.189
I'm so happy we did.

00:25:45.189 --> 00:25:49.872
I'm glad we went down that path because we were talking about Milton Knaf.

00:25:49.872 --> 00:25:55.404
I also wanted to bring up a couple other influences that I've found again through your multiple conversations.

00:25:55.404 --> 00:26:01.390
You're so generous with your time when you sit down with different magazines and other podcasts and such.

00:26:01.390 --> 00:26:13.273
I've heard you talk about Hugo Pratt as someone you've already mentioned, Mobius of course, and our shared love of his work, but also Tendonori Yoku was one that I also saw that his design work is a big influence on you.

00:26:13.273 --> 00:26:27.647
And while I think it's fair to say that your art style is distinctive and very much yours, I'm curious, while you were finding your voice as a young artist, can you remember back to one of the very first moments where you impressed yourself with your own work?

00:26:27.829 --> 00:26:29.491
Ooh, that one's tougher.

00:26:29.491 --> 00:26:33.714
think, uh, I don't think I can quite pinpoint where it is.

00:26:33.714 --> 00:26:47.207
can pinpoint something like Tadon or Yoko or like if I'm looking at, uh, Andy Warhol or, know, something, somebody like that, I can be like, Oh, I can finally draw like them or I can make color like that.

00:26:47.207 --> 00:26:58.925
I think it would be something like the, I think the real secret challenge, the cartoonists, if you get them to really take the scales off and like actually talk about it.

00:26:58.925 --> 00:27:02.125
It's when you can draw what you really think.

00:27:02.506 --> 00:27:04.246
That's the hardest thing.

00:27:04.246 --> 00:27:06.246
Cause like I have an idea, but like the hardest, okay.

00:27:06.246 --> 00:27:09.965
One of the hardest things for me to draw is a vehicle, a motorcycle or a car.

00:27:09.965 --> 00:27:11.425
And of course here I'm sadist.

00:27:11.425 --> 00:27:13.246
I'm drawing those old type.

00:27:13.826 --> 00:27:15.925
So it's like, okay, well, how do get better at this?

00:27:15.925 --> 00:27:18.405
And it's like, eventually I used to sit down, man.

00:27:18.405 --> 00:27:24.741
When I was in school, everybody in the glass blowing department in my building at Ohio state.

00:27:25.006 --> 00:27:26.016
They all have motorcycles.

00:27:26.016 --> 00:27:28.228
Those tough guys, all of them.

00:27:28.228 --> 00:27:33.521
And I'd sit outside looking at their bikes and like trying to get their engines correct and everything.

00:27:33.521 --> 00:27:37.384
And every once while I got commodity, be like, what, what are you drawing there?

00:27:37.384 --> 00:27:40.977
You, this is a twin cylinder BMW.

00:27:40.977 --> 00:27:41.567
Okay, cool.

00:27:41.567 --> 00:27:43.699
Let's sit down and take a look at it, you know?

00:27:43.739 --> 00:27:46.340
And eventually I made the Batmobile, right?

00:27:46.340 --> 00:27:48.781
Or my, my version of the Batmobile.

00:27:48.782 --> 00:27:54.253
So it's like trying to understand everything about that material object.

00:27:54.253 --> 00:27:55.653
that makes it real.

00:27:55.653 --> 00:28:03.713
And it's like, okay, well, if I can draw that, because I wasn't trained in like, you know, CAD or mechanical arts or something like that.

00:28:03.713 --> 00:28:07.574
if I can, if I can see this as it really is, then I can draw.

00:28:07.614 --> 00:28:13.054
And then I can look at a flower and what's the difference between a begonia or a rose.

00:28:13.074 --> 00:28:13.993
Now like these kinds of things.

00:28:13.993 --> 00:28:15.874
And it's like to see those things.

00:28:15.874 --> 00:28:23.273
And I think that's really what is interesting about drawing because it's perception and perception is thinking.

00:28:23.915 --> 00:28:24.414
Right.

00:28:24.414 --> 00:28:26.088
So yeah, that's what I see.

00:28:26.114 --> 00:28:27.214
Yeah, that's interesting.

00:28:27.214 --> 00:28:31.946
And it totally makes sense because as someone who is not artistic at all, I know it's a muscle.

00:28:31.946 --> 00:28:34.218
something that you have to train and work at.

00:28:34.398 --> 00:28:49.268
I feel like as someone who's loved art, but, you know, specifically comics, I could tell you when I think of a great piece in my mind and many people come to mind immediately, I know for a fact that I wouldn't even be able to do like a rough sketch of that.

00:28:49.268 --> 00:28:52.288
Like in this moment, even I can see it perfectly in my brain.

00:28:52.288 --> 00:28:55.691
You know, can see like For instance, you just spoke about Frank Miller a moment ago.

00:28:55.691 --> 00:29:03.536
I can see that iconic scene with him and with Batman, the Dark Knight returns Batman with Robin sort of going through the air.

00:29:03.536 --> 00:29:04.675
But could I recreate that?

00:29:04.675 --> 00:29:05.757
Absolutely not.

00:29:05.757 --> 00:29:07.086
So I think that that's an accomplishment.

00:29:07.086 --> 00:29:08.301
That's huge accomplishment.

00:29:08.301 --> 00:29:08.832
I guess so.

00:29:08.832 --> 00:29:10.313
mean, like, but think about this.

00:29:10.313 --> 00:29:30.213
Like if you, um, your, your real life, walk out and you, know, you meet people, some people have some very interesting stories and, know, like you get into some sort of conversation and they tell you something like, well, this one time this power cable hit my cousin and almost knocked his eyeballs out, but didn't.

00:29:30.394 --> 00:29:33.557
And you're here like, Whoa, I want to hear the story.

00:29:33.557 --> 00:29:36.647
And you hear these crazy stories that people live.

00:29:36.758 --> 00:29:38.648
Or maybe something a little bit more mundane.

00:29:38.648 --> 00:29:42.170
Like we worked in a kitchen and I cut my finger.

00:29:42.170 --> 00:29:45.832
was slicing garlic or something, you know, but it's still a story.

00:29:45.832 --> 00:29:55.266
And I think the cartoonist mindset is the person who, like you might hear a story like, you know, point A point B points.

00:29:55.685 --> 00:30:00.857
And then you might say like, okay, I'm seeing exactly everything that they're describing.

00:30:00.857 --> 00:30:05.102
And then like I'm, I'm composing it in images.

00:30:05.102 --> 00:30:07.521
And then every once in a I'll say, okay, wait, this one's good enough.

00:30:07.521 --> 00:30:09.741
Like I think this one I can use.

00:30:10.102 --> 00:30:18.662
Or it's like, this is more like a language, a visual auditory language that we call comics.

00:30:18.741 --> 00:30:19.442
Right?

00:30:19.442 --> 00:30:20.385
So yeah.

00:30:20.385 --> 00:30:20.665
Yeah.

00:30:20.665 --> 00:30:24.578
And I think that that isn't that one of the biggest strengths of the medium, right?

00:30:24.578 --> 00:30:33.616
Is that you're getting a collaborative view of a story that, know, when you're reading a prose novel, you're having to visualize what things are in your brain, right?

00:30:33.616 --> 00:30:34.645
In your brain as you're reading it.

00:30:34.645 --> 00:30:41.123
But in comics, you're reading slash seeing, and in your case, it's all coming from you.

00:30:41.123 --> 00:30:44.484
But, you know, in most cases, it's a sort of a collaborative effort.

00:30:44.506 --> 00:30:49.890
I just find that so special in that you're seeing exactly what he wanted you to see.

00:30:49.890 --> 00:31:01.714
You know, it's funny you say that because everybody loves Tolkien today, but he wrote an essay against illustrating books for children.

00:31:01.755 --> 00:31:03.875
And I forget the name of the essay.

00:31:03.875 --> 00:31:16.862
I've got a copy of it around the corner here, but basically was saying, okay, if I'm the writer, I'm going to suggest an idea, a concept, and let the child come up with the idea.

00:31:16.862 --> 00:31:18.432
So his example.

00:31:18.445 --> 00:31:24.885
I think it was called Unreal Estates, Aldous Huckley, Brian Aldous and Tolkien.

00:31:24.885 --> 00:31:27.986
They're just having drinks at Oxford somewhere and talking.

00:31:28.145 --> 00:31:39.786
And the idea was it's unfair to suggest to children too much information about, like in this case, it was a man sat at a table at a fret.

00:31:39.826 --> 00:31:46.905
And he said, if you illustrate this, it's going to be a specific man sitting at a specific table with specific fret.

00:31:47.288 --> 00:31:53.422
But if you just give the kids the most basic things, they'll come up with all of the different pictures.

00:31:53.623 --> 00:31:56.424
And now here, you and I, fast forward, we're grownups, right?

00:31:56.424 --> 00:32:03.910
So yeah, we read comic books and people love details on Iron Man's costume or Wolverine's costume.

00:32:03.910 --> 00:32:05.671
So they kind of want that.

00:32:05.692 --> 00:32:13.497
So you wouldn't say something like the mutant walked into a boxing match and faced the fat guy.

00:32:14.935 --> 00:32:16.371
And thinking, perhaps.

00:32:16.371 --> 00:32:16.843
Yeah.

00:32:16.843 --> 00:32:17.218
Yeah.

00:32:17.218 --> 00:32:18.540
Blah, yeah, exactly.

00:32:18.540 --> 00:32:21.306
Which I love that scene by the way.

00:32:21.488 --> 00:32:22.816
You know what I'm saying.

00:32:22.816 --> 00:32:26.088
from a, is that Wolverine origins maybe I think possibly.

00:32:26.185 --> 00:32:28.307
Only good scene in the movie.

00:32:28.307 --> 00:32:29.028
Terrible film.

00:32:29.028 --> 00:32:30.048
That's right.

00:32:30.250 --> 00:32:31.461
I mean, that's the thing.

00:32:31.461 --> 00:32:43.400
That's what's interesting though, because if you look at the contrast here, a writer like Tolkien is saying, I don't want any visual description for the characters.

00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:45.811
But then in comics, we definitely have that.

00:32:45.811 --> 00:32:51.195
I like Wolverine, I just looked at the original character design for Wolverine in effect.

00:32:51.382 --> 00:32:53.183
And it's like, okay, well, he looks like this.

00:32:53.183 --> 00:32:55.507
He's got, you know, this type of costume.

00:32:55.507 --> 00:32:58.009
It's yellow and blue and these marks.

00:32:58.009 --> 00:32:58.859
And it's very important.

00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:00.250
You get this correct.

00:33:00.451 --> 00:33:06.057
It's not like a, a scroungy little Canadian walked into a woods to fight.

00:33:06.392 --> 00:33:07.228
the hole.

00:33:07.662 --> 00:33:10.561
And then you have like, Oh gosh, what's this guy look like?

00:33:10.761 --> 00:33:14.301
The wolf man might never be a human at that point.

00:33:14.301 --> 00:33:17.261
You know, it's an interesting thing to think about.

00:33:17.442 --> 00:33:17.642
Absolutely.

00:33:17.642 --> 00:33:18.862
Art is never wrong.

00:33:18.862 --> 00:33:19.922
It's never wrong.

00:33:19.922 --> 00:33:28.102
It's like, you know, if, if an artist kind of like steers the boat, maybe it's going to look or feel a certain way.

00:33:28.102 --> 00:33:29.182
Like, okay.

00:33:29.261 --> 00:33:31.281
Sorry, I'm going on a tangent.

00:33:32.422 --> 00:33:33.142
Okay.

00:33:33.142 --> 00:33:33.721
Okay.

00:33:33.721 --> 00:33:37.221
I read the Tolkien novels multiple times.

00:33:37.501 --> 00:33:41.545
And there were very few physical descriptions of orcs.

00:33:41.545 --> 00:33:42.125
Hmm.

00:33:42.125 --> 00:33:43.326
Very few.

00:33:43.326 --> 00:33:48.102
And he, he invited you to imagine what an orc looked like.

00:33:48.102 --> 00:33:55.795
You have descriptions of like greasy black fur and big tongues and their eyes glowing in the dark and things.

00:33:55.795 --> 00:34:07.432
But there's not a lot of description where it's like, when we look at comic books, it's like we have the latest version of like, let's say Bucky Barnes or Captain America or, know, whoever you want.

00:34:07.448 --> 00:34:09.280
they have specific looks.

00:34:09.398 --> 00:34:17.376
And I think that's something that comics does very well, but literature or, you know, like young adult stuff, doesn't do that too much.

00:34:17.376 --> 00:34:21.197
It leaves like holes so kids can imagine stuff like that.

00:34:21.197 --> 00:34:21.918
Absolutely.

00:34:21.918 --> 00:34:23.277
We had uh Brian K.

00:34:23.277 --> 00:34:32.106
Vaughan on the show last year and he mentioned that the best artists, or I would say maybe even the best creators in the industry and in comics, are the best actors.

00:34:32.106 --> 00:34:41.213
know, he says Fiona Staples is one of the best actors and she can tell you everything the character is thinking in their head in a panel.

00:34:41.313 --> 00:34:42.715
Zero word balloons.

00:34:42.715 --> 00:34:45.675
And I found that really fascinating and I tend to agree even.

00:34:45.675 --> 00:34:56.610
I think it's true because I think if you really think about it, having worked on, you know, as they say, behind the camera, it's not easy to shoot something, you know, it's hard.

00:34:56.610 --> 00:35:04.494
Comics, you kind of take on every single role that filmmaking does, but you're doing it in like kind of a microcosm.

00:35:04.494 --> 00:35:06.134
So you don't need a hundred actors.

00:35:06.134 --> 00:35:07.315
You don't deal with egos.

00:35:07.315 --> 00:35:09.635
You don't have to get a fire marshal.

00:35:09.635 --> 00:35:11.155
You don't have a lighting guy.

00:35:11.155 --> 00:35:13.916
You know, you don't have a DP or the editor.

00:35:13.916 --> 00:35:15.797
You're the director, I guess.

00:35:15.903 --> 00:35:18.099
And I think that's probably the best way to do it.

00:35:18.099 --> 00:35:24.351
you know, honestly, one of the most fun things at the job is coming up with new sound effects.

00:35:24.351 --> 00:35:27.139
You are the absolute master of the automatopoeia.

00:35:27.139 --> 00:35:27.905
I'll tell you.

00:35:27.905 --> 00:35:30.447
But I sit there and I think about it, I'm like, okay, what is this?

00:35:30.447 --> 00:35:31.277
Well, that's the thing.

00:35:31.277 --> 00:35:32.577
That's the weird thing about manga.

00:35:32.577 --> 00:35:37.909
Like manga, I remember there was one sound effect I saw when I was working in Japan for the sound.

00:35:37.909 --> 00:35:42.389
We don't have this in English, but there's the sound of a pencil rolling down a table.

00:35:42.389 --> 00:35:42.909
Okay.

00:35:42.909 --> 00:35:44.650
And kind of fall off.

00:35:44.811 --> 00:35:47.530
And it was something like total, total, total, total.

00:35:47.530 --> 00:35:49.811
So it's like the sound of something rolling.

00:35:49.811 --> 00:35:58.695
And then we have this like myth and North American English that, you know, Inuit had 12 different words for snow.

00:35:58.735 --> 00:35:59.576
Maybe that's true.

00:35:59.576 --> 00:36:02.478
I mean, I don't know for certain that it's true or not.

00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:11.766
But it makes sense though, because everything could be identified by a word or a sound, a word sound, which is what sound effects are.

00:36:11.766 --> 00:36:12.507
Right.

00:36:12.507 --> 00:36:18.952
So I'm always trying to find new ones because, know, of course we have snap and bang and boom and crackle and pop.

00:36:20.034 --> 00:36:21.514
That's right.

00:36:21.514 --> 00:36:26.938
I was rereading Batman year 100 for in preparation for this conversation.

00:36:26.938 --> 00:36:29.679
And I here's a couple that I just opened up to immediately.

00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:30.356
Everyone here.

00:36:30.356 --> 00:36:35.708
I'm just going to list out all the automata PIAs or sound effects from just this random page within Batman year 100.

00:36:35.708 --> 00:36:40.807
We've got tap tap, yank, poca, poca, poca, ratatatat, foop.

00:36:40.807 --> 00:36:42.708
And that's F W O P P.

00:36:42.708 --> 00:36:45.655
uh always going to spell it wrong.

00:36:45.655 --> 00:36:47.559
That's the way to make it yours.

00:36:48.619 --> 00:36:48.920
All right.

00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:50.202
Well, here's the thing, Paul.

00:36:50.202 --> 00:36:52.384
We've gotten about 30 minutes into this conversation.

00:36:52.384 --> 00:37:00.632
We have not talked about your exhibit at all, which is the reason why you're here today is to talk about your exhibit over at the, the leap, uh, Lebon.

00:37:00.632 --> 00:37:01.302
Philippe LeBond.

00:37:01.302 --> 00:37:01.501
Yeah.

00:37:01.501 --> 00:37:01.882
Yeah.

00:37:01.882 --> 00:37:09.155
Well, we can, I mean, I think what we're talking about is the mechanics of cartooning.

00:37:09.155 --> 00:37:12.547
So I'm, I think it's valid from what I understand.

00:37:12.547 --> 00:37:13.608
That's like, I think it's good.

00:37:13.608 --> 00:37:14.528
Yeah.

00:37:14.528 --> 00:37:14.768
Yes.

00:37:14.768 --> 00:37:16.349
Let's talk about the gallery.

00:37:16.474 --> 00:37:17.233
It's incredible.

00:37:17.233 --> 00:37:22.318
They're spinning what is it about a month uh celebrating you and your work a little bit over a month actually.

00:37:22.318 --> 00:37:27.302
The exhibit, excuse me, it opened on June 19th and will be open until July 26th.

00:37:27.302 --> 00:37:29.003
And this is how it's being advertised.

00:37:29.003 --> 00:37:35.748
It's being advertised as a showcase that spans a three decade career across comics, illustration and design.

00:37:35.748 --> 00:37:43.623
It will feature a curation of never before seen originals and homages to some of his own personal favorite pieces, his being all Pope.

00:37:44.130 --> 00:37:49.306
while also serving as both a retrospective and testament to his enduring legacy on comics.

00:37:49.306 --> 00:37:57.885
So Paul, my question for you is how did this event come about with LeBron and then also what has that planning process been like for you?

00:37:57.907 --> 00:37:59.117
Oh, God.

00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:04.681
Well, I met Philippe when he opened the gallery.

00:38:04.702 --> 00:38:09.023
So we know each other and my girlfriend knows Philippe.

00:38:09.224 --> 00:38:18.489
And when my art book, my second art book, Paul Pope 2 came out a few months ago, I brought him a copy of it.

00:38:18.829 --> 00:38:23.070
And we went to the Will Eisner exhibit, which was great.

00:38:23.411 --> 00:38:30.534
And she and Philippe started talking and it was like, I would never suggest I should be in the show.

00:38:30.534 --> 00:38:34.353
But they kind of put this germ together in each other's minds.

00:38:34.353 --> 00:38:37.094
And it was like, okay, well, maybe he can come in here.

00:38:37.094 --> 00:38:38.153
okay, well.

00:38:38.153 --> 00:38:39.574
And so I brought a lot of art.

00:38:39.574 --> 00:38:43.974
I brought 35 pieces, which eventually got narrowed down to 25.

00:38:44.213 --> 00:38:48.773
And the room expanded so we had more space for pieces.

00:38:48.773 --> 00:38:51.753
it's okay, I see why this is valuable.

00:38:52.393 --> 00:38:55.782
so I guess in that sense, it's like being a custodian.

00:38:55.797 --> 00:39:00.130
not just for my art, but like for comics where they are today.

00:39:00.373 --> 00:39:03.010
So that's kind of, you know, that was kind of the idea.

00:39:03.010 --> 00:39:05.559
How often are you actually there at the exhibition?

00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:09.293
Have you spent multiple days there or do you show up kind of one day to sort of celebrate with everybody?

00:39:09.293 --> 00:39:11.634
No, no, I'm there regularly at this point.

00:39:11.634 --> 00:39:14.114
I'm out there at least once or twice a week.

00:39:14.253 --> 00:39:16.114
We were, I mean, we're ongoing at this point.

00:39:16.114 --> 00:39:17.853
we, we get together.

00:39:17.853 --> 00:39:19.534
mean, we have stuff to do.

00:39:19.534 --> 00:39:23.213
work on things with them and I'm going back on the eighth.

00:39:23.213 --> 00:39:26.594
And then, you know, so it's like, it's just what's interesting.

00:39:26.594 --> 00:39:30.893
It's like, you've got like, let's say three quadrants at this point.

00:39:31.134 --> 00:39:38.742
So it's like me working as a cartoonist, me working with Felix Lou, my art rep, and that's a whole other side of it.

00:39:38.742 --> 00:39:43.730
And then having a gallery, it's like, there's so much more involved in having a gallery.

00:39:43.730 --> 00:39:49.038
It's a space, you have people, it's an event, you have to plan for everything.

00:39:49.038 --> 00:39:50.900
And it's like, it's a lot.

00:39:50.900 --> 00:39:54.893
And so it's like, wow, learning how to do all those, those things.

00:39:54.893 --> 00:39:59.447
Have you had any of your artist friends come visit you or the exhibition while you're there?

00:39:59.447 --> 00:40:00.338
Yeah, a number of them.

00:40:00.338 --> 00:40:01.378
It's been great.

00:40:01.378 --> 00:40:13.449
And I think it's very exciting because we're at a point in time where an artist can show, you know, Chelsea is kind of where like major artists show.

00:40:13.670 --> 00:40:21.235
And like there's a gallery that's dedicated to illustration and comic book art and people are taking it seriously.

00:40:21.536 --> 00:40:23.237
And we're on the map now.

00:40:23.237 --> 00:40:26.210
I think that's been a beautiful thing though.

00:40:26.210 --> 00:40:27.702
And I don't mind.

00:40:27.702 --> 00:40:34.748
like being kind of the front man for that because, you know, I think it's going to mean better things for more people later.

00:40:35.108 --> 00:40:36.679
And it elevates the art.

00:40:36.717 --> 00:40:54.918
I feel like you are seamlessly transitioning me with each of my questions because my next question was actually going to be when you first got in the medium in the 90s, it kind of felt like, and of course I was young, so I don't remember what this is like, but just from what I understand, comics were just still considered for kids a little bit of a throwaway medium.

00:40:54.918 --> 00:40:55.498
Trash.

00:40:55.498 --> 00:41:05.414
But in today's world, even outside of a lot of the hits within Hollywood, comics are revered as much more of a higher quality of a medium.

00:41:05.414 --> 00:41:07.387
Like how do you, how do you react to that?

00:41:07.387 --> 00:41:09.291
And then you, like you said, you're of at the forefront of it all.

00:41:09.291 --> 00:41:10.456
How does that feel?

00:41:10.456 --> 00:41:17.947
Well, the first thing I would say is something my dad always told me, the Pope role is don't believe your own bullshit.

00:41:18.748 --> 00:41:21.329
So number one, that's the that's number one rule.

00:41:21.329 --> 00:41:24.670
Number one rule of rock and roll is you're bigger than the shit you're in.

00:41:24.670 --> 00:41:27.090
Number two is don't believe your own bullshit.

00:41:27.471 --> 00:41:30.371
So it's like, OK, well, I see myself as a figure.

00:41:30.371 --> 00:41:32.411
And so, I'm at this place.

00:41:32.411 --> 00:41:33.452
This time it's great.

00:41:33.452 --> 00:41:34.672
You know, whatever.

00:41:34.793 --> 00:41:37.806
I've always believed that comics is.

00:41:37.806 --> 00:42:08.739
of legitimate art form and it's so frustrating being in college and like there are certain artists that were allowed into the curriculum or the canon and certain artists that weren't and I would always ask them like you know when I was back in school for painting and printmaking like we could look at Andy Warhol we could look at Ansel Kieffer or David Salli or somebody and but I was like well what about Jack Kirby like can we look at Jack no no that's comic websites And then it's like, okay, well then is it merely money?

00:42:08.739 --> 00:42:11.721
Like, do you just want to see some money?

00:42:11.721 --> 00:42:13.501
Here's Frank Frazetta motherfucker.

00:42:13.501 --> 00:42:15.623
You happy now?

00:42:15.623 --> 00:42:18.454
know, but then it's like, that's not enough.

00:42:18.454 --> 00:42:20.286
It's like, okay, well, okay.

00:42:20.286 --> 00:42:20.615
Okay.

00:42:20.615 --> 00:42:30.711
This is based on a Roy Crankel and it's based on, you know, Frederick and the German romanticists and like you take it further back if you want Michelangelo.

00:42:30.711 --> 00:42:39.231
So yeah, I can speak that language, but it's like there, there is something that's, um, very special to comics that makes it a different art medium.

00:42:39.231 --> 00:42:42.192
You know, the French call it the night, right?

00:42:42.333 --> 00:42:46.293
We already have dance, poetry, literature, music, right?

00:42:46.293 --> 00:42:46.963
Go to them.

00:42:46.963 --> 00:42:53.617
And then eventually comics is something it's a weird hybrid of storytelling and picture making.

00:42:53.617 --> 00:42:55.617
And I think it's its own medium.

00:42:55.617 --> 00:42:57.505
It's, special, really.

00:42:57.505 --> 00:42:58.485
absolutely.

00:42:58.485 --> 00:43:03.806
I was watching, I feel like we've talked about Frank Miller a couple of times now here in this conversation.

00:43:03.806 --> 00:43:13.085
And I was actually watching his documentary, American genius, a couple of months ago and in the doc, it actually has some accepting an award there in France.

00:43:13.085 --> 00:43:18.626
And I just wish, um, you know, and you know, like, I don't know, I don't know what the equation is.

00:43:18.626 --> 00:43:25.260
I don't know how you compare these two, but it seems like, as you just mentioned a moment ago, the French have fully like embraced.

00:43:25.260 --> 00:43:28.992
the medium as like a true pillar art form.

00:43:28.992 --> 00:43:36.340
And it just kind of feels like in some ways, it almost feels like manga has overtaken American comics in this realm in America.

00:43:36.340 --> 00:43:37.005
You know what mean?

00:43:37.005 --> 00:43:37.815
Do you feel that at all?

00:43:37.815 --> 00:43:38.240
Am I wrong?

00:43:38.240 --> 00:43:38.771
Am I off base?

00:43:38.771 --> 00:43:43.922
I do, but I have a theory about this having worked in all of these different realms.

00:43:44.143 --> 00:43:50.204
America, North America is a plurality of many different cultures.

00:43:50.465 --> 00:43:55.746
And there, I don't think there's one identifying American culture.

00:43:55.746 --> 00:43:59.458
Like you and I might, you know, might say we came from the Midwest, right?

00:43:59.458 --> 00:44:01.648
Or somebody says I'm from Tennessee.

00:44:01.648 --> 00:44:02.909
That's supposed to mean something.

00:44:02.909 --> 00:44:03.748
I'm from LA.

00:44:03.748 --> 00:44:05.789
I'm from Seattle.

00:44:05.789 --> 00:44:07.050
kind of thing, you know?

00:44:07.050 --> 00:44:16.643
And then it's like, A little country like Japan or Belgium or France, they're always an identity that's independent.

00:44:16.643 --> 00:44:17.672
Like we're French.

00:44:17.672 --> 00:44:18.574
We have French food.

00:44:18.574 --> 00:44:20.005
We have French language.

00:44:20.005 --> 00:44:21.085
We have French jokes.

00:44:21.085 --> 00:44:24.867
We have French history in terms of the wars we had with the English.

00:44:24.867 --> 00:44:26.088
The English hate the French.

00:44:26.088 --> 00:44:27.469
The French hate the English.

00:44:27.469 --> 00:44:28.978
The Belgians hate the French.

00:44:28.978 --> 00:44:31.331
know, it's like America doesn't...

00:44:31.331 --> 00:44:35.092
North America, I'm going say, because this is a very large continent.

00:44:35.092 --> 00:44:36.588
Canada and...

00:44:36.588 --> 00:44:38.528
Mexico are also America, right?

00:44:38.528 --> 00:44:39.739
So we have that.

00:44:40.659 --> 00:44:51.646
regional, I'll put it this way, regional identity of cultural context through comics is specific to each country in Europe.

00:44:51.967 --> 00:44:58.130
So in Italy, have Diabolic, we have Corteau, we have Tex, right?

00:44:58.130 --> 00:45:00.190
We have certain characters like this.

00:45:00.190 --> 00:45:02.012
have Mickey Mouse.

00:45:02.012 --> 00:45:03.652
Those things have worked there.

00:45:03.652 --> 00:45:05.664
The French have a different thing.

00:45:05.922 --> 00:45:10.784
You know, we have what they call the big feet, know, ghost can be and these artists.

00:45:10.784 --> 00:45:17.347
then of course in Belgium, if you spend any time in Brussels, you are going to be forced to draw tint.

00:45:18.141 --> 00:45:25.052
And that's why Mobius is so important because he's, he's like the Jimi Hendrix comics put it that way.

00:45:25.052 --> 00:45:29.594
mean, this is a dude that reinvented himself and he's the, he's the Mobius strip.

00:45:29.594 --> 00:45:31.456
It's like, like, Whoa.

00:45:31.456 --> 00:45:35.822
Realizing that at a very young age to me was like, Whoa, that's incredible.

00:45:35.822 --> 00:45:47.681
So I think with North America, have the distinctive, because we are a melting pot, we can take European comics or Asian, I'm gonna spread it out and say Asian comics.

00:45:47.681 --> 00:45:50.202
We have a lot of comics at this point.

00:45:50.202 --> 00:46:12.077
And the history of American comics, like whether you've got into image comics or TMNT or Bronze Age or Silver Age, know, the classics, whatever, we as North Americans are in a very special place because we have access to lots and lots of visual storytelling tools, which I think are harder.

00:46:12.237 --> 00:46:18.603
You know, a guy I work with is in Kuwait right now and you know, it's hard for him to get Western comics.

00:46:19.003 --> 00:46:21.826
And so it's like, okay, I'm to get a package for you and send it.

00:46:21.826 --> 00:46:27.630
like, you know, do I have to put any special like label on this to make sure that you're not going to get busted?

00:46:28.052 --> 00:46:30.097
Just like normal comic books.

00:46:30.097 --> 00:46:31.277
it's contraband.

00:46:31.617 --> 00:46:33.318
They're trying to try to smuggle it.

00:46:33.318 --> 00:46:34.777
Yeah, could be.

00:46:34.777 --> 00:46:36.117
Yeah, it's so interesting.

00:46:36.117 --> 00:46:47.757
My North Star goal as a comic book reader is eventually get over overseas and get it into, would just say Europe in general and just sort of visit the comic shops there, see how much they differ from LCS is here in the US.

00:46:48.438 --> 00:46:52.157
you but also specifically go to Thought Bubble because I've been to San Diego.

00:46:52.157 --> 00:46:54.518
So again, we're recording this on July 1st.

00:46:54.518 --> 00:46:57.297
And real quick, Paul, you're to be at San Diego here in a couple of weeks.

00:46:57.297 --> 00:46:59.657
Uh, no, I'm not doing anything.

00:46:59.657 --> 00:47:03.222
I'm in my chest, chest board.

00:47:03.463 --> 00:47:10.840
So, uh, I'll be out there again, but so multiple, multiple projects in the work.

00:47:10.840 --> 00:47:15.123
So, um, they'll, they'll come out in their, Yeah.

00:47:15.123 --> 00:47:21.378
Well, so I've been to San Diego four times in New York, five times C2E2 multiple times, never been to Thought Bubble.

00:47:21.378 --> 00:47:23.188
That's like my ultimate goal.

00:47:23.769 --> 00:47:29.074
you know, and a good friend of the show, Christian Ward is often bugging me to get out there and, visit him there.

00:47:29.074 --> 00:47:29.454
Yeah.

00:47:29.454 --> 00:47:30.335
Christian's a good guy.

00:47:30.335 --> 00:47:39.117
Uh, so, I would love to, at some point get over there and visit him and also go to Thought Bubble and also just experience what it's like for comic readers over there.

00:47:39.117 --> 00:47:48.581
If you do go there, um I went there actually, and when I went, my dad is a huge fan of The Who, as he calls them, the Orbo Who.

00:47:49.342 --> 00:47:57.184
And they have a famous record that was recorded in Leeds, Live at Leeds, which is at the university, in the cafeteria.

00:47:57.184 --> 00:48:00.146
And it's a great album, it's so good, it's great rock and roll record.

00:48:00.146 --> 00:48:07.208
And my one request was, we go to the cafeteria at the University of Leeds to see where The Who played?

00:48:08.210 --> 00:48:08.865
And we did.

00:48:08.865 --> 00:48:09.586
That's awesome.

00:48:09.586 --> 00:48:10.827
Yeah, that's great.

00:48:10.827 --> 00:48:12.318
Okay, so here's a quick question for you.

00:48:12.318 --> 00:48:16.733
This is a slight deviation because I do want to get back to LeBlanc at some point.

00:48:16.954 --> 00:48:20.298
you so you've mentioned you mentioned the who I'm assuming you're fan.

00:48:20.298 --> 00:48:23.436
know I already know you're fan of the Grateful Dead because you've done work for them.

00:48:23.436 --> 00:48:24.257
No, no, not.

00:48:24.257 --> 00:48:27.608
well, I mean, I'm a, I like working with them.

00:48:27.608 --> 00:48:32.271
haven't, I'm, I'm a little more of the Led Zeppelin thing.

00:48:32.271 --> 00:48:40.016
mean, you know, know a couple of the hits of the Grateful Dead, but you don't have to know the music to work on the stuff.

00:48:40.016 --> 00:48:41.577
I still respect them.

00:48:42.411 --> 00:48:50.788
I shouldn't have assumed, guess I should, yeah, but I guess my question was gonna be, that seems to be like two of the only bands that have performed at the Sphere in Las Vegas.

00:48:50.788 --> 00:48:55.019
And I was gonna ask you if you had any interest in doing that at all, like going and seeing them.

00:48:55.019 --> 00:49:00.153
No, no, I don't, but I'm interested in applications for AI.

00:49:00.153 --> 00:49:08.739
And I know you two did a big residency there and I do like you two, but I mean, I'm GenX, so it kind of goes territory.

00:49:08.739 --> 00:49:20.148
But, you know, I feel like I'm a little bit more of a detached thinker when it comes to art applications and like how you can merge music or visuals with art.

00:49:20.148 --> 00:49:22.590
And so I'm interested in seeing that.

00:49:22.626 --> 00:49:24.800
But just growing up, I never got into the dead.

00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:26.735
wasn't really on my radar.

00:49:26.735 --> 00:49:28.929
No more for rolling stones.

00:49:28.929 --> 00:49:29.539
Let's have them.

00:49:29.539 --> 00:49:30.606
Okay.

00:49:30.606 --> 00:49:31.706
That's that's totally fair.

00:49:31.706 --> 00:49:37.565
Honestly, I was part of the generation that everyone got the new U2 album on their iTunes.

00:49:37.565 --> 00:49:41.284
I don't know if you remember that from like 2000 and like, yeah, I have it as well.

00:49:41.284 --> 00:49:42.775
I've never listened to it.

00:49:42.775 --> 00:49:47.259
Something about that was really like, you know, I didn't really.

00:49:48.581 --> 00:49:48.880
Yeah.

00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:54.786
When you, when you go to a restaurant, they bring you out some like little thing at the beginning, like, oh, we, didn't ask us to hear.

00:49:54.786 --> 00:49:55.976
We brought you the salad.

00:49:55.976 --> 00:49:58.668
I go, thank you very much.

00:49:58.668 --> 00:50:02.331
But it's like, when you get a U2 record, you kind of like, I didn't ask for this.

00:50:02.331 --> 00:50:08.521
uh Well, I want to, I want to go back just a little bit to LeBron.

00:50:08.521 --> 00:50:11.853
You were mentioning how you had to siphon down a couple of pieces.

00:50:11.914 --> 00:50:18.746
And again, we already mentioned that there's a bunch of personal pieces, some never before seen pieces that you've worked on.

00:50:18.746 --> 00:50:27.293
I was curious and I know I keep asking you big questions here, but is there a particular piece or a set of pieces that you were especially excited to share with this new exhibit?

00:50:27.293 --> 00:50:29.974
Um, sorry, I feel like my shirt is really.

00:50:29.974 --> 00:50:32.320
I was going to ask you to unbutton it a little bit more.

00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:33.625
Just like five buttons.

00:50:33.625 --> 00:50:34.092
you could.

00:50:34.092 --> 00:50:39.811
it's it's, you have to understand it's like, let me paint a picture for y'all.

00:50:39.811 --> 00:50:41.166
It's about a hundred degrees.

00:50:41.166 --> 00:50:43.447
It is about a hundred degrees in my apartment.

00:50:43.447 --> 00:50:46.139
So yeah, excuse me for unbuttoning my shirt.

00:50:46.139 --> 00:50:48.769
Unbutton a little too far.

00:50:48.769 --> 00:50:54.052
Well, I wanted to make sure that there was a wide range of art in the show.

00:50:54.052 --> 00:51:06.362
And, oh you know, we, I felt like it was important, you know, a piece from Spider-Man, a piece from Batman, and then my creator on stuff like, you know, 100 % the boxing story, things like that.

00:51:06.362 --> 00:51:13.646
And then I wanted to have a couple of pieces in there that, you know, kind of like maybe reflected more about like what I think about as an artist.

00:51:13.646 --> 00:51:18.688
Because I do work in comics as an art medium, not just commercial media, right?

00:51:18.688 --> 00:51:22.949
And so I wanted to be able to make sure that there was a range of it.

00:51:22.956 --> 00:51:26.547
And you mentioned that there were about 10 that you had to sort of piece off.

00:51:26.568 --> 00:51:31.081
Is there one in that pile that you were like, man, why, why couldn't I at least keep that one?

00:51:31.081 --> 00:51:34.606
You know, or you had to go to someone else to tell you which one to get rid of.

00:51:34.606 --> 00:51:40.425
Well, I mean, I, you know, when it comes to working with the gallerists like Philippe, I mean, I trust him.

00:51:40.425 --> 00:51:42.445
He's had maybe 40 shows.

00:51:42.445 --> 00:51:45.045
He's shown some prominent artists.

00:51:45.226 --> 00:51:46.766
And I just, I was like, you know what?

00:51:46.766 --> 00:51:52.465
I'm going to bring in more than he needs because I wanted to sit down with him and see what he thinks is good.

00:51:52.465 --> 00:51:57.865
And we went through everything, you know, was an interesting conversation and he pulled a few things out.

00:51:57.865 --> 00:51:59.865
was like, wow, I'm surprised he pulled that one out.

00:51:59.865 --> 00:52:11.635
Cause I thought that was definitely going to be a, and just see how he narrows it down and, you know, a gallery knows their audience who knows how to attract certain people.

00:52:11.635 --> 00:52:13.646
And it's not just like a hustle.

00:52:13.646 --> 00:52:17.257
It's like, you know, want to share the art and the love of the art.

00:52:17.257 --> 00:52:26.693
You know, maybe if you like the art, maybe buy the book and the book is going to show you this like history of an artist, that kind of thing.

00:52:26.693 --> 00:52:31.166
You know, so I, I, I treated like a very genuine.

00:52:31.233 --> 00:52:35.996
Not just like, look at us, like, you know, rubbing my hands like an oil salesman.

00:52:35.996 --> 00:52:37.608
Look at me, I'm making money.

00:52:37.608 --> 00:52:39.027
That kind of thing.

00:52:39.027 --> 00:52:41.494
Like I'm just trying to actually like share the art form.

00:52:41.494 --> 00:52:47.262
Like if you walked on 24th street in Chelsea, there's some confusing art in the windows.

00:52:47.262 --> 00:52:50.903
It's like, okay, I'm going to walk into this gallery and look at this art.

00:52:51.045 --> 00:52:53.226
It might be a painting or a sculpture or something.

00:52:53.226 --> 00:52:55.780
And I'm a guy who went to school, you know what mean?

00:52:55.780 --> 00:53:00.737
So it's like, okay, I understand like maybe some of the rhetoric of what they're trying to go for.

00:53:00.737 --> 00:53:04.199
But it's like, I don't understand what the hell this is supposed to mean.

00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:13.365
But if you go into Le Bon gallery and you see a drawing of a wolf on the wall, that's literally a drawing of a wolf.

00:53:13.847 --> 00:53:17.208
There's no extra uh secret sauce in this.

00:53:17.268 --> 00:53:19.494
It's a drawing of a I'm a simple man.

00:53:19.494 --> 00:53:21.164
I love what I love a drawing of a wolf.

00:53:21.164 --> 00:53:26.380
All right, I don't need much more than that You know, that's just, that's one of the things about that gallery.

00:53:26.440 --> 00:53:46.458
Of course, the art can be more oblique and different things, but you know, think a lot of comics is just very direct, you know, whether you're writing it or you're getting a script, it's like, usually it's like, you know, Spider-Man's flying in over the Chrysler building or something and just make that the best image you can make it.

00:53:46.458 --> 00:53:51.362
As opposed to like, I'm trying to draw this complicated image of my mother's psychology.

00:53:51.362 --> 00:53:55.637
oh I'm sitting in oh a high chair or something.

00:53:55.637 --> 00:53:58.150
Something like that, that's a little more complex.

00:53:58.150 --> 00:54:02.047
I'm not downselling comic books as low brow.

00:54:03.246 --> 00:54:05.376
I don't think anyone's going to accuse you of that.

00:54:05.376 --> 00:54:08.835
I don't, I think it's, I just think it's direct.

00:54:08.835 --> 00:54:10.137
That's the beauty of it.

00:54:10.137 --> 00:54:18.563
You know, as funny as I was going to ask you what the connection was between your mother's psychology and Batman, you know, I knew that there's a, I know there's a link there, but I just wasn't sure.

00:54:18.563 --> 00:54:19.496
There isn't.

00:54:19.496 --> 00:54:20.836
There actually isn't.

00:54:21.010 --> 00:54:21.951
That's right.

00:54:21.951 --> 00:54:23.791
There's a turtle Leon.

00:54:23.791 --> 00:54:32.875
He's flipped over in the desert Right, I'll tell you about my mother remember that Blade Runner reference yeah, yeah.

00:54:33.978 --> 00:54:39.539
Okay, so I promise you this is not an attempt to flip the conversation on its head, but I know it's fine.

00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:41.059
Dude, I'm not worried.

00:54:41.059 --> 00:54:42.760
Look at me.

00:54:44.684 --> 00:54:46.987
I'm actually enjoying our conversation.

00:54:46.987 --> 00:54:48.989
That is the best compliment that I could ever receive.

00:54:48.989 --> 00:54:49.619
So thank you for that.

00:54:49.619 --> 00:54:51.300
appreciate that.

00:54:51.300 --> 00:55:04.565
But you know, again, rewriting Batman year 100, my gosh, what a more relevant piece of work right now, you know, for the U S and where we're at currently in 2025 with a force like the wolves and the Panthers.

00:55:04.565 --> 00:55:05.994
Do you have a time machine?

00:55:05.994 --> 00:55:08.418
How much did that, how long did that take you to, to create that?

00:55:08.418 --> 00:55:11.380
No, just, no, thank you for acknowledging that.

00:55:11.380 --> 00:55:19.708
I mean, I think the holy grail for science fiction writers is to be able to write something that is going to be prescient in the future.

00:55:19.708 --> 00:55:33.789
So I thought about like when I read, Follow My Tears, you know, by Philip Dick or Scanner Darkly, like some of these strange visions or even like, uh I mean, sorry, strange visions.

00:55:33.789 --> 00:55:36.581
just referenced Arlene Ellison for that one, but.

00:55:36.581 --> 00:55:46.782
uh You know, some of the stuff we see in science fiction, whether it's Watchmen, I mean, I think there's a, like, I don't want to say it in a cynical way.

00:55:46.782 --> 00:55:56.561
Like, I think the real meat of writing science fiction with comics is to have a predictive sense of where our society is going.

00:55:56.862 --> 00:56:04.822
So yeah, I mean, when I, I mean, when I wrote Batman year 100, I mean, it was not too far after 9-11 and the Patriot Act.

00:56:04.822 --> 00:56:07.302
And I was kind of like, okay, well, let me imagine.

00:56:07.393 --> 00:56:13.936
Like where this might go 20 years from now, you know, and then it's like, you know, what is, what is a superhero at that point?

00:56:14.036 --> 00:56:18.748
If everyone is identified, you know, so that was, mean, thank God DC let me do it.

00:56:18.748 --> 00:56:23.887
You know, they kind of unsure, but like, no, look, you know, it's the force of charisma.

00:56:23.887 --> 00:56:25.791
I'm like, look, no, I'll make this happen.

00:56:25.791 --> 00:56:26.681
I'll make this work.

00:56:26.681 --> 00:56:27.240
Don't worry.

00:56:27.240 --> 00:56:28.360
This will happen.

00:56:28.762 --> 00:56:29.481
And it worked.

00:56:29.481 --> 00:56:30.431
It worked.

00:56:30.438 --> 00:56:31.177
I agreed.

00:56:31.177 --> 00:56:37.777
And I think I would be pressed to find many Batman fans that wouldn't put your 100 in at least their top 10.

00:56:37.777 --> 00:56:39.518
Like it is an all-timer for sure.

00:56:39.518 --> 00:56:41.398
And you've won multiple Azures for it.

00:56:41.398 --> 00:56:43.898
It's, it's legacy will outlive all of us, I think.

00:56:43.898 --> 00:56:47.873
And I'm so happy that DC editorial, you know, gave you that green light.

00:56:47.873 --> 00:56:48.985
Yeah, you know, it's really weird.

00:56:48.985 --> 00:57:05.989
It's like you think about being an artist is like, I remember when I was in my teens, for example, you think a lot about like, my God, this crisis of like, I'm going to die young, probably like my heroes, know, Jim Morris and Arthur Rambeau, like this kind of thing.

00:57:05.989 --> 00:57:09.170
And it's like, then you live past that and you're like, okay, well, wait a minute.

00:57:09.170 --> 00:57:15.195
have something I have to say about society and the world we live in.

00:57:15.195 --> 00:57:17.452
You know, then you take on that mantle.

00:57:17.452 --> 00:57:24.751
which is I think a bigger mantle because you're not dealing with that like usual chaotic adolescent anxiety.

00:57:24.751 --> 00:57:28.958
Like, okay, well let me think about society and where we are today.

00:57:28.958 --> 00:57:33.143
And so that's the way I approach comic books is like, you know, I write science fiction.

00:57:33.143 --> 00:57:34.668
It just happens to be comics.

00:57:34.668 --> 00:57:35.358
Yeah.

00:57:35.358 --> 00:57:39.498
And you've often noodle on this, you know, a couple ideas that we're sort of living in today.

00:57:39.498 --> 00:57:41.409
mean, we've got, uh, irregularly.

00:57:41.409 --> 00:57:43.469
AI is becoming more and more of a thing.

00:57:43.469 --> 00:57:47.581
As you mentioned a moment ago, Silicon Valley is influencing our government.

00:57:47.581 --> 00:57:48.981
I mean, those are just a couple of things.

00:57:48.981 --> 00:57:54.594
I'm just part of me as a fan of yours and as someone you're minor, I want to be like, Paul, tell me what to do here.

00:57:54.594 --> 00:58:00.764
But it's one those things that, I'm just curious how you stay so humble and don't constantly proclaim.

00:58:00.764 --> 00:58:03.146
I told you guys all this was going to happen.

00:58:03.514 --> 00:58:04.737
I just wear it as a t-shirt.

00:58:04.737 --> 00:58:07.320
Well, because I'm not an asshole.

00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:11.983
You know, I mean, like I told you, man, the Pope's rules of rock and roll.

00:58:11.983 --> 00:58:13.304
Don't believe your own bullshit.

00:58:13.304 --> 00:58:15.766
You're bigger than the shit you're in.

00:58:16.186 --> 00:58:17.067
I grew up with that.

00:58:17.067 --> 00:58:20.018
That was my dad's rule.

00:58:20.018 --> 00:58:22.900
said, look, son, this is what you have to do.

00:58:22.900 --> 00:58:23.351
Okay.

00:58:23.351 --> 00:58:24.731
I listened to him.

00:58:24.733 --> 00:58:32.288
But man, mean, comic books are a small piece of the big puzzle, you know, and nobody gets in the comics trying to get rich.

00:58:32.289 --> 00:58:42.353
You know, I mean, you do it, like, if you have success, it's great, but you're trying to tell stories about the world and people, and you try to make pictures that make people feel good.

00:58:42.353 --> 00:58:42.744
Right.

00:58:42.744 --> 00:58:47.597
And trying to connect with people who are like you, you know, and I think that that's a beautiful thing.

00:58:47.597 --> 00:58:48.632
And I don't know.

00:58:48.632 --> 00:58:49.146
It's funny.

00:58:49.146 --> 00:58:59.641
Like maybe that's a certain psychology and other people are attracted to other types of work or other goals, know, uh, conquest or whatever they're thinking about.

00:58:59.641 --> 00:59:00.481
But I think.

00:59:00.481 --> 00:59:01.592
Comics is kind of pure.

00:59:01.592 --> 00:59:04.556
It's like, you know, like I'm interested in telling stories.

00:59:04.556 --> 00:59:07.231
I'm interested in drawing and connection.

00:59:07.231 --> 00:59:09.813
And that's kind of what it is to me.

00:59:10.068 --> 00:59:14.039
you've definitely, you're circling something that I feel like I've always loved about the medium.

00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:18.391
There's a certain level of community and fellowship that goes along with reading comics.

00:59:18.391 --> 00:59:24.943
You guys are, even as someone like yourself, who's had an incredible career is obviously still accessible in some ways.

00:59:24.943 --> 00:59:29.346
uh There are not other mediums like comics.

00:59:29.346 --> 00:59:37.835
uh the one thing, I think the number one thing I love about it is that, and I'm taking this from a friend of mine who often says this, that comics...

00:59:37.835 --> 00:59:40.309
deserve and require our participation.

00:59:40.309 --> 00:59:50.731
If we don't participate in the good, then it will be overrun by those who may want to dismiss it or disperse it, excuse me, you know, of that.

00:59:50.829 --> 00:59:51.771
That's an interesting thing.

00:59:51.771 --> 00:59:52.630
I never thought about that.

00:59:52.630 --> 00:59:55.934
That's interesting to think about engagement.

00:59:56.574 --> 01:00:03.179
Like you kind of think like from one side as an artist, it's like, okay, well, I'm going to make a statement and I'm going to just kind of put it out there.

01:00:03.179 --> 01:00:06.422
Like I told a story, you know, whatever it might be.

01:00:06.422 --> 01:00:17.050
And then you don't need response from people, but to know that it connects with people, you know, and then it kind of changes the dialogue over time.

01:00:17.050 --> 01:00:17.831
Right.

01:00:17.831 --> 01:00:25.188
Like if you think about it, like, let me just come up with a silly example like Alien or uh The Matrix.

01:00:25.188 --> 01:00:38.391
Like, you know, there's certain touch points in culture where uh science fiction or fantasy stories or science, you know, science horror, whatever we call it, they changed the way people think about the world we live in.

01:00:38.472 --> 01:00:41.472
That's kind of the dialogue I think that we do.

01:00:41.592 --> 01:00:43.753
It's just faster now than it used to be.

01:00:44.338 --> 01:00:52.103
Something I've always really appreciated about your work and this is sort of my round of the conversation, my round, what I say, like rounding third here, I guess.

01:00:52.103 --> 01:01:01.871
And something I've always appreciated about your work is that, outside of the obvious, your priority, seems, has been to establish this emotional theme within a piece.

01:01:01.871 --> 01:01:05.503
You recently elaborated on this kind of idea with the comics journal.

01:01:05.503 --> 01:01:08.735
And I'm gonna, if you don't mind, I'm gonna read a direct quote from you in that piece.

01:01:08.735 --> 01:01:11.137
I do recommend people to go read this themselves.

01:01:11.137 --> 01:01:13.057
I will have a link for it in the show notes.

01:01:13.130 --> 01:01:21.891
You say here that a lot of my life has been spent trying to gain this aptitude to be able to draw through pictures, to depict through pictures what I see in my mind.

01:01:21.891 --> 01:01:31.034
As we already spoke about here in this conversation, a lot of the times it goes beyond realism and beyond trying to make someone laugh, beyond impressing someone with a detailed drawing.

01:01:31.034 --> 01:01:40.097
It's about actually getting across an emotional state, hopefully reaching other people so that they can see and feel the same way or get sparked to feel their own things.

01:01:40.117 --> 01:01:44.898
I absolutely love that thought, Paul and This is my final question for you and it kind of deals with this quote here.

01:01:44.898 --> 01:01:46.472
This might be a big one too, so I apologize.

01:01:46.472 --> 01:01:50.210
I feel like I've been hitting you with a of big questions here in this conversation, but I, I gotta take advantage.

01:01:50.210 --> 01:01:52.387
I'm an intellectual, we can do this.

01:01:52.782 --> 01:02:04.476
ah Do you believe that there is a hierarchy between how the viewer feels about your finished piece compared to how you felt while creating it and ultimately trying to invoke with it?

01:02:04.653 --> 01:02:05.914
Great question.

01:02:05.914 --> 01:02:07.594
I don't think it's a hierarchy.

01:02:07.594 --> 01:02:12.157
I would say it is uh a screen.

01:02:12.759 --> 01:02:19.983
So the artist might have an intention and might say something or do something creatively.

01:02:19.983 --> 01:02:23.824
And then that's put into the ether.

01:02:23.824 --> 01:02:32.896
And then the viewership or the readers or other artists or however you want to say it, they have the freedom to be able to interpret it.

01:02:32.896 --> 01:02:34.726
And they might say, well, this is crap.

01:02:34.726 --> 01:02:39.047
This guy's fucked up and he's just not any good anymore.

01:02:39.047 --> 01:02:41.538
Or they might say, my God, this is the best thing I've ever read.

01:02:41.538 --> 01:02:42.329
can't believe it.

01:02:42.329 --> 01:02:44.186
This is kind of state of me froze by life.

01:02:44.186 --> 01:02:45.309
my God, I'm crying.

01:02:45.309 --> 01:02:46.110
You know, that kind of thing.

01:02:46.110 --> 01:02:51.010
And it's like that, that is the, the freedom of interpretation.

01:02:51.190 --> 01:03:02.188
And even me, like, if I look at something I like a lot, whether it, like I listened to the Tuesdays obviously example, and Rick's is cover of a, along the watch tower.

01:03:02.188 --> 01:03:07.119
Yeah, I go, I, I do go back to that once in a while and I'm like listening to it.

01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:17.264
And it's just, it's so interesting that certain pieces of art, whether it's music or paintings or film or poetry, whatever, it can keep growing.

01:03:17.943 --> 01:03:23.367
And other things like, okay, do some music example, Jane's addiction.

01:03:23.367 --> 01:03:24.806
I really loved Jane's addiction.

01:03:24.806 --> 01:03:26.487
That first record, nothing shocking.

01:03:26.487 --> 01:03:30.409
Well, they had one before that, but nothing shocking was a major label.

01:03:30.409 --> 01:03:41.693
And that sounds so good, but When I listen to it, it sounds like me being 18 years old, rather than me listening to music that keeps altering and changing.

01:03:42.054 --> 01:03:54.329
I think that maybe, depending on the artist, think that maybe the goal is to make something that's going to keep growing with the audience, or the reader, or the listener, or the viewer, you know, something like that.

01:03:54.329 --> 01:03:56.701
Cause that's the kind of art I like.

01:03:57.081 --> 01:03:58.010
keeps growing.

01:03:58.010 --> 01:03:59.047
Yeah, it keeps growing.

01:03:59.047 --> 01:04:04.773
You know, it's funny, and just to sort of keep on the musical theme of it all, my favorite band of all time is Daft Punk.

01:04:04.773 --> 01:04:09.097
as a kid, uh Discovery, of course, uh it's an all-timer for a lot of people.

01:04:09.097 --> 01:04:22.847
I think that may have been my favorite as a young person, but as I've gotten older, and I think this is purposeful based on their growth as a band as well, is Random Access Memories, which unfortunately became their last album, as I think maybe possibly become my favorite now.

01:04:22.847 --> 01:04:25.389
And I'm often...

01:04:25.547 --> 01:04:26.838
sort of wondering why.

01:04:26.838 --> 01:04:39.063
uh Maybe it's a more mature sounding sound or maybe I listened to Discovery too much or maybe there's something to what you're saying here which is that I've just sort of grown to it and parts of me have sort of uh been changing with it.

01:04:39.063 --> 01:04:39.918
I don't know.

01:04:39.918 --> 01:04:40.998
Yeah, it's a good question.

01:04:40.998 --> 01:04:49.958
Like if I think about the other night, I did a deep dive on Nick Cave, one of my favorite performers and songwriters, musicians and stuff.

01:04:49.978 --> 01:04:51.657
And some of it holds up.

01:04:51.657 --> 01:04:55.637
Some of it to me doesn't, some of it I heard in a different way.

01:04:55.637 --> 01:05:00.097
Like once in every once in a while, like maybe once a month I do like this deep dive on music.

01:05:00.097 --> 01:05:07.038
I'm like, okay, I'm just going to go into like Zeppelin or I'm going to go into Rachmaninoff or something or whatever it might be.

01:05:07.038 --> 01:05:08.646
I just listened to it.

01:05:08.737 --> 01:05:14.019
Because I come up with all kinds of visuals in my mind and you listen to stuff and it's like, okay, well, wait a minute.

01:05:14.019 --> 01:05:17.161
Like maybe it's the lyrics, maybe it's the sound.

01:05:17.322 --> 01:05:22.163
Maybe it, it doesn't quite hit you because you're at a different phase of life.

01:05:22.244 --> 01:05:27.545
You know, but I mean, I mean, one thing I really believe about art is that it's never nihilistic.

01:05:27.545 --> 01:05:30.907
You can always find an access point to art.

01:05:30.907 --> 01:05:34.318
And, you know, we, we work in the ninth art, right.

01:05:34.318 --> 01:05:36.568
Which is one of the classical arts.

01:05:36.568 --> 01:05:38.382
We don't work in dance.

01:05:38.382 --> 01:05:44.945
poetry, but I mean, we can combine all those things because we're the ninth and the ninth inherits all the eighth.

01:05:44.985 --> 01:05:46.965
So I don't know.

01:05:46.965 --> 01:05:48.376
I, that's how I think.

01:05:48.376 --> 01:05:54.148
And as a music appreciator or art appreciator, I really get into all kinds of stuff.

01:05:54.148 --> 01:06:08.858
it's like, you know, might find myself in some weird tangent where I'm listening to like Tito Puente and like something I can't even get down from Amazon or from iTunes or whatever and say, well, it's just like a really rare track.

01:06:08.858 --> 01:06:11.000
I just discovered, but it's cool.

01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:12.721
And it's like, it's really hitting me.

01:06:13.302 --> 01:06:18.806
And then like that little, whatever the little bread come is in there, you can put it back into your work.

01:06:18.927 --> 01:06:23.643
Whether it's, you know, journalism or, comics or whatever it might be.

01:06:23.643 --> 01:06:25.375
And it's like, you know, something new.

01:06:25.375 --> 01:06:28.750
I think that's the exciting thing about art.

01:06:28.750 --> 01:06:30.369
Yeah, I've heard you talk about this too.

01:06:30.369 --> 01:06:40.130
This is the last thing I'll I'll say because I, uh, you, you mentioned before about how with pulp hope you wanted to include a lot of like never before seen.

01:06:40.130 --> 01:06:51.474
And we keep talking about this, like never before seen, uh, you know, work from you that hasn't been published and how you often will get extremely excited when you find something never before seen from someone you really, you know, revere.

01:06:51.474 --> 01:06:56.057
And I feel terrible because we barely talked about Pulp Pulp 2, which is coming out through Booms2Do as everybody.

01:06:56.057 --> 01:06:57.438
So make sure you go craft that.

01:06:57.438 --> 01:06:57.996
Yeah, sure.

01:06:57.996 --> 01:07:02.322
But that that seems to be a main goal for you with this new art book.

01:07:02.349 --> 01:07:05.119
Well, look, man, I mean, one day we're all going to die, right?

01:07:05.119 --> 01:07:07.543
It's not to get dark.

01:07:07.987 --> 01:07:08.822
However.

01:07:08.822 --> 01:07:09.273
Right here.

01:07:09.273 --> 01:07:09.623
Perfect.

01:07:09.623 --> 01:07:10.347
Everyone's going to die.

01:07:10.347 --> 01:07:11.150
We'll see you later.

01:07:11.150 --> 01:07:14.050
No, no, wait, wait.

01:07:14.050 --> 01:07:21.909
If this is my last attempt at having an artistic statement, I want to make sure that everything I did is there.

01:07:21.909 --> 01:07:24.170
Not because I'm such an egomaniac.

01:07:24.170 --> 01:07:28.710
It's just more like, here's the trajectory of an artist.

01:07:29.130 --> 01:07:35.210
And like I started drawing little ridiculous pictures with like a ballpoint pen.

01:07:35.269 --> 01:07:38.110
Like my dad liked the Beatles, so I drew pictures of the Beatles.

01:07:38.110 --> 01:07:39.438
And then like, oh.

01:07:39.438 --> 01:07:43.958
I watched the Batman on TV and it's like, draw up Batman and you know, stuff like that.

01:07:43.958 --> 01:07:45.838
And it's like, okay, then where'd you go after that?

01:07:45.838 --> 01:07:47.797
Then it turns into something else.

01:07:47.797 --> 01:07:50.097
And I think that's such a generous thing.

01:07:50.097 --> 01:07:57.717
Cause when I meet younger artists today, like artists, might say are like Gen Z or like younger artists.

01:07:57.818 --> 01:08:04.958
And they ask kind of questions that I find sort of agonizing, like, should I draw or should I just go into like digital?

01:08:05.177 --> 01:08:14.840
I'm like, well, you know, it depends on what you want, but You know, I mean, all the questions about like, why would you pick up a tool like this and start doing it?

01:08:14.840 --> 01:08:21.886
You know, I'm like the muscle memory and all the stuff you have to do to make a drawing, you know, it's not easy.

01:08:22.247 --> 01:08:24.188
So you're kind of in for, for a while.

01:08:24.188 --> 01:08:25.711
That's what you're going to do.

01:08:25.711 --> 01:08:27.282
I don't think kids know kids.

01:08:27.282 --> 01:08:28.462
Kids don't really know.

01:08:28.462 --> 01:08:31.376
Cause you know, when you're a kid, you're seven years old.

01:08:31.376 --> 01:08:33.729
mean, the summer is a lifetime.

01:08:33.729 --> 01:08:37.530
Well, I'll tell you, Paul, I think that is an incredible way to end the conversation.

01:08:37.530 --> 01:08:49.014
And I feel like since you were seven and drawing those Beatle pictures, you've come quite a long ways, both in terms of, this, this exhibition and this pulp hope too, and everything that you've done in your career, you're a five time Eisner winner.

01:08:49.014 --> 01:08:53.510
mean, not, not that awards or everything, but that's still an insanely incredible achievement.

01:08:53.510 --> 01:08:57.510
Uh, and I just feel so honored to have the opportunity to chat with you here today.

01:08:57.510 --> 01:09:00.787
Uh, it was an absolute pleasure having you here on the Oblivion Bar podcast.

01:09:00.787 --> 01:09:01.328
Pleasure.

01:09:01.328 --> 01:09:06.564
me too, because, know, dialogue is two way thing and I have a new work coming up.

01:09:06.564 --> 01:09:09.167
You know, we should have a conversation down the road too.

01:09:09.167 --> 01:09:09.703
I would love that.

01:09:09.703 --> 01:09:16.226
Like when the new things are out, I've been spending 10 years in the wilderness working on new stuff nobody even knows about.

01:09:16.226 --> 01:09:18.979
So it'll, it'll arrive.

01:09:18.979 --> 01:09:20.201
It'll manifest.

01:09:20.238 --> 01:09:21.597
Do not threaten me with a good time.

01:09:21.597 --> 01:09:24.318
Anytime you want the second chair on the Oblivion Bar, it is yours, Paul.

01:09:24.318 --> 01:09:25.238
I promise you.

01:09:25.238 --> 01:09:28.356
Do you mind if I fanboy for like 10 seconds really quick?

01:09:28.356 --> 01:09:28.978
Sure.

01:09:28.978 --> 01:09:29.557
All right.

01:09:29.557 --> 01:09:33.917
I was going to say that, you know, you are a living icon and a trailblazer.

01:09:33.917 --> 01:09:38.997
And I feel so incredibly bummed that I can't be there in New York to see this exhibition.

01:09:38.997 --> 01:09:42.618
But for the listeners that are on the East Coast, I highly recommend them.

01:09:42.618 --> 01:09:47.757
July 26th is the last day that you can go see this exhibition for Paul Pope there.

01:09:47.757 --> 01:09:56.818
And I will tell you again, as I just mentioned a moment ago, hope hope to all that will be all the information for both the exhibition and pulp up to will be in the show notes.

01:09:56.818 --> 01:09:59.738
Everyone listen to this, please go check those out.

01:09:59.738 --> 01:10:03.078
And, you know, Paul, again, just I'm so grateful to have you here today.

01:10:03.078 --> 01:10:06.417
And before I let you go, uh, is there anything that you want to say to the listener?

01:10:06.417 --> 01:10:09.547
Is there anything you want to sort of, uh, you know, hybrid plug or anything else?

01:10:09.547 --> 01:10:22.809
I mean, I guess I would probably say just, I really believe in positive mental attitude and I believe in faith and I don't mean denominational faith and your God versus my God, kind of thing.

01:10:22.809 --> 01:10:30.815
But whatever, whoever you are listening to this out there, the artists, the dreamers, just keep going, man.

01:10:30.815 --> 01:10:33.557
PMA, positive mental attitude.

01:10:33.557 --> 01:10:35.338
Keep believing in yourself.

01:10:35.359 --> 01:10:38.572
Keep believing in your art and your friends.

01:10:39.213 --> 01:10:40.578
That's what I have to say.

01:10:40.578 --> 01:10:41.158
I love it.

01:10:41.158 --> 01:10:42.520
Perfect way to end the conversation.

01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:44.141
Paul, what a pleasure.

01:10:44.377 --> 01:10:47.087
I love to have you back on the show if you have the availability.

01:10:47.087 --> 01:10:48.009
Let's do it.

01:10:48.009 --> 01:10:48.770
Yeah, let's do it.

01:10:48.770 --> 01:10:49.140
For sure.

01:10:49.140 --> 01:10:49.944
We'll talk to you soon.

01:10:49.944 --> 01:10:51.503
Congratulations on everything and we'll talk soon.

01:10:51.503 --> 01:10:51.904
Okay.

01:10:51.904 --> 01:10:52.961
All right, brother.

01:10:52.961 --> 01:10:54.175
Thank you very much.

01:10:54.869 --> 01:10:56.791
Alrighty, there's that conversation with the Paul Pope.

01:10:56.791 --> 01:11:00.814
Once again, thank you, thank you, thank you so much to Paul for coming onto the show.

01:11:00.814 --> 01:11:02.154
Really appreciate it.

01:11:02.154 --> 01:11:07.548
ah Again, Aaron, I told you this before, but I don't like to assume a position in someone's life.

01:11:07.548 --> 01:11:09.579
I don't want to assume that we're friends with some of these.

01:11:09.579 --> 01:11:13.025
Like I always want, we always want to befriend these creators when they come on the show, of course.

01:11:13.025 --> 01:11:17.506
If they want to be friends with us, we will absolutely take that every single time.

01:11:17.506 --> 01:11:19.707
But we don't want to assume that we're friends, right?

01:11:19.707 --> 01:11:24.500
Because they could just be coming on wanting to chat about comics and promote their work or whatever.

01:11:24.654 --> 01:11:31.554
I just legitimately thought that like at the end of this conversation, little peek behind the curtain, everybody, Paul and I chatted for like 40 minutes after this conversation.

01:11:31.554 --> 01:11:38.033
We just wanted to keep talking about comics and his career and everything that he's doing and like comics today and music.

01:11:38.033 --> 01:11:38.913
What an incredible guy.

01:11:38.913 --> 01:11:41.253
Very, very grateful to have Paul on the show.

01:11:41.453 --> 01:11:48.253
Again, his exhibit over at the Philippe LeBlanc Gallery in New York City is open until July 26th.

01:11:48.253 --> 01:11:54.082
So make sure you guys, if you're in the New York area, if you're in the, I would say even on the East coast, take a train over to New York City.

01:11:54.082 --> 01:11:54.762
Go check that out.

01:11:54.762 --> 01:12:00.006
Aaron, you're in Brooklyn, actually in the same area as Paul.

01:12:00.006 --> 01:12:00.676
Any interest?

01:12:00.676 --> 01:12:04.890
you eventually going to try to figure out a way to go check out this exhibit there at LeBlanc?

01:12:04.890 --> 01:12:05.280
Absolutely.

01:12:05.280 --> 01:12:05.921
Yeah.

01:12:05.921 --> 01:12:06.551
Absolutely.

01:12:06.551 --> 01:12:08.953
And I hope you take a bunch of pictures for us.

01:12:08.953 --> 01:12:10.354
We'll post them online.

01:12:10.354 --> 01:12:12.957
If you see Paul, you'd be like, hey, I'm the other half of the Oblivion bar.

01:12:12.957 --> 01:12:15.179
Hey, Paul.

01:12:15.179 --> 01:12:17.911
Paulie.

01:12:17.911 --> 01:12:23.768
thing we didn't really get to, Aaron, in this conversation that I kind of wish we would have, and I'll sort of plug it here at the end, is that Paul.

01:12:23.768 --> 01:12:26.680
Hope 2, which is his new art book that's coming out.

01:12:26.680 --> 01:12:27.100
I'm sorry.

01:12:27.100 --> 01:12:28.421
It has already come out.

01:12:28.421 --> 01:12:30.442
And I think people should go get that.

01:12:30.442 --> 01:12:32.063
It's through Boom Studios.

01:12:32.063 --> 01:12:35.435
It's also in collaboration with this exhibit.

01:12:35.435 --> 01:12:42.288
A lot of the work that he was sort of piecing together for this exhibit was already kind of organized because he was working on Pulp Hope 2.

01:12:42.288 --> 01:12:44.689
So highly recommend people go grab that.

01:12:44.689 --> 01:12:45.831
Recently came out.

01:12:45.831 --> 01:12:49.613
Definitely something I'm going to be grabbing and uh just excited.

01:12:49.613 --> 01:12:59.146
Paul mentions at one point in this conversation, Aaron, that He is working on a couple things that he'll be announcing here soon, maybe around San Diego and New York's New York Comic Con.

01:12:59.146 --> 01:13:03.159
So he mentioned that he would love to come back on the show and those things eventually get announced.

01:13:03.159 --> 01:13:07.743
So I'm honestly kind of like I'm smitten for sure.

01:13:07.743 --> 01:13:21.612
Yeah, I mean, I'm just uh I'm just again, I'm eternally grateful for the opportunity to talk to someone like Paul, but all these creators like every time we get to talk to one of these creators, Paul Pope or anyone else.

01:13:21.641 --> 01:13:25.984
If this is their first comic, you know, it's, the greatest part about having the show.

01:13:25.984 --> 01:13:29.726
I started getting to hang out with you, my best friend and talk about all these things that we love.

01:13:29.726 --> 01:13:36.381
I would say like a very close second would be talking to these creators, picking their brain on their process and their careers and what they have upcoming.

01:13:36.381 --> 01:13:39.653
And gosh, I just, I'm feeling really grateful today is all I'm saying, I guess.

01:13:39.653 --> 01:13:40.774
yeah.

01:13:41.064 --> 01:13:43.162
glowing with your appreciation.

01:13:43.435 --> 01:13:44.828
And Aaron, you weren't here for this conversation.

01:13:44.828 --> 01:13:46.100
Where the hell were you at?

01:13:46.195 --> 01:13:48.582
I don't remember, it's not available.

01:13:48.582 --> 01:13:49.422
I wasn't available.

01:13:49.422 --> 01:13:51.043
I had do not disturb on I don't know.

01:13:51.043 --> 01:14:03.911
Yes, you were you were getting prepared for next week, Aaron, because next week on the show we are talking about Superman and I don't know if listeners are privy to that small indie film that's coming out from a little studio called DC Studios.

01:14:03.911 --> 01:14:08.472
Oh, no, not really tracking that.

01:14:10.154 --> 01:14:10.914
What have I told you?

01:14:10.914 --> 01:14:11.925
It's been wrong.

01:14:11.925 --> 01:14:15.077
What I told you is from a small director called James Gunn.

01:14:15.237 --> 01:14:16.097
Still nothing.

01:14:16.097 --> 01:14:16.597
Not.

01:14:16.597 --> 01:14:21.295
I was doing a reference to the end of the last Superman movie with Lex Luthor in the prison.

01:14:21.295 --> 01:14:23.046
He's like the bells wrong.

01:14:23.046 --> 01:14:24.528
The red coats are coming.

01:14:24.528 --> 01:14:24.858
Yeah.

01:14:24.858 --> 01:14:26.469
Red coats are coming.

01:14:27.369 --> 01:14:29.381
Hopefully this movie is much better than that one.

01:14:29.381 --> 01:14:29.931
I'll tell you.

01:14:29.931 --> 01:14:30.972
I don't know how people feel.

01:14:30.972 --> 01:14:39.238
I don't have a listeners feel about Zack Snyder's Justice League, but this is the new era of DC studios and you know, we are nothing if not era.

01:14:40.400 --> 01:14:41.051
What was that?

01:14:41.051 --> 01:14:41.681
Sorry.

01:14:41.681 --> 01:14:42.502
Era.

01:14:42.502 --> 01:14:45.545
The DC era.

01:14:45.545 --> 01:14:50.525
I'm very excited for this brand new era of DC studios.

01:14:50.525 --> 01:14:50.817
Okay.

01:14:50.817 --> 01:14:51.662
End of bit, Aaron.

01:14:51.662 --> 01:14:53.202
Let's be serious.

01:14:53.202 --> 01:14:54.282
We're talking about Superman here.

01:14:54.282 --> 01:14:57.902
Talking about the man of tomorrow, man of steel, live long and prosper.

01:14:57.902 --> 01:15:00.442
I'm doing the Star Trek thing, everybody.

01:15:00.521 --> 01:15:04.402
Not the same property, Chris.

01:15:04.622 --> 01:15:05.921
We're getting a little loopy, everybody.

01:15:05.921 --> 01:15:07.221
We just did a grid before this.

01:15:07.221 --> 01:15:15.681
Next week on the show, episode 199, we were talking about Superman and Aaron, don't know if you heard me just say episode 199, but that can only mean one thing.

01:15:16.742 --> 01:15:17.381
200.

01:15:17.381 --> 01:15:19.242
We're almost to 200.

01:15:19.242 --> 01:15:19.992
And keep it 100.

01:15:19.992 --> 01:15:20.903
Tithes.

01:15:21.293 --> 01:15:22.859
100 squared, you know what saying?

01:15:22.859 --> 01:15:24.398
Yeah, it's power too.

01:15:24.398 --> 01:15:28.543
You Then we get to 300 will be 100 cubed.

01:15:28.543 --> 01:15:30.856
Yeah, Matt, maybe math.

01:15:30.856 --> 01:15:32.199
I fucking hate it.

01:15:32.631 --> 01:15:35.006
We'll be together for this 200th episode.

01:15:35.006 --> 01:15:35.618
Very exciting.

01:15:35.618 --> 01:15:37.122
Excited to see my BFF.

01:15:37.122 --> 01:15:40.817
And then I'll see you the next week at San Diego, which is coming up as well.

01:15:41.739 --> 01:15:42.793
Big ol' smooch.

01:15:42.793 --> 01:15:43.833
Right on the lips.

01:15:43.833 --> 01:15:45.793
Even if I'm still sick.

01:15:46.615 --> 01:15:47.787
You shouldn't be, hopefully.

01:15:47.787 --> 01:15:49.416
But that's next week on the show, everybody.

01:15:49.416 --> 01:15:50.738
A lot of things happening in July, Aaron.

01:15:50.738 --> 01:15:53.546
We have an extremely busy month, but I'm excited.

01:15:53.546 --> 01:15:54.248
A lot of fun things.

01:15:54.248 --> 01:15:55.890
Fantastic fourth of the month.

01:15:56.229 --> 01:15:59.110
We've got an interview with Tony McMillan on the docket.

01:15:59.110 --> 01:16:02.042
Ethan Parker and Griffin Sheridan, both are going to be on the show here soon.

01:16:02.042 --> 01:16:02.972
Godzilla.

01:16:02.972 --> 01:16:05.043
So a lot of things, a lot of things happening, Aaron.

01:16:05.043 --> 01:16:05.837
It's exciting.

01:16:05.837 --> 01:16:07.810
exciting time to be a comic book nerd.

01:16:07.810 --> 01:16:09.215
Yes, very much so.

01:16:09.215 --> 01:16:10.698
So that'll do it for episode 198.

01:16:10.698 --> 01:16:12.786
Once again, thank you, Paul Pope for joining us.

01:16:12.786 --> 01:16:13.939
Can't wait to have him back on the show.

01:16:13.939 --> 01:16:16.134
Aaron, please take us out of here.

01:16:16.457 --> 01:16:21.519
subscribe to our podcast, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Audible, iHeartRadio, wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

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Boom, there we are.

01:16:22.529 --> 01:16:37.984
Thank you to our patrons, Alex, Alice, Aaron, Bada, Chris, S, Chris, Y, Christie, David, Elliot, Erica, George, Gianni, Greg, Haley, Hamsticks, Jake, Jeremy, Kyle, Lucy, Mike, Mike, Livia, Ryan, I, Robert, Saunter, Sebastian, Sean, Trevor, Travis, Zach, and Brad and Lisa.

01:16:37.984 --> 01:16:41.728
If you want to support the show without spending a single dime slash penny.

01:16:41.728 --> 01:16:50.319
A follow on your preferred podcasting platform and a five star rating and or a review on an Apple podcast and Spotify helps the show a flippin ton.

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Okay.

01:16:51.060 --> 01:16:55.662
Follow us on blue sky, Instagram, Tik Tok and Twitch at oblivion bar pod follow official merge.

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The show can be found on our website, oblivion, oblivion bar podcast.com.

01:17:01.503 --> 01:17:04.854
A big thank you to only press and endless comics, games and cards for sponsoring the show.

01:17:04.854 --> 01:17:05.185
Thank you.

01:17:05.185 --> 01:17:07.305
KXD studios for all of our oblivion bar art.

01:17:07.305 --> 01:17:12.403
He's at KXD graphics on Instagram and Thank you, Dream Kid, for all of our musical themes.

01:17:12.403 --> 01:17:14.154
Thank you, DJ Skyvac, for our grid theme.

01:17:14.154 --> 01:17:22.729
And last but not least, don't forget to tip your bartenders, servers, waiters, waitresses, uh busboys, uh valet attendants.

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uh Yeah, anybody that deserves to get a valet.

01:17:27.181 --> 01:17:29.493
Can I say valet?

01:17:29.493 --> 01:17:30.332
20 % or more.

01:17:30.332 --> 01:17:31.822
Don't be a dick.

01:17:31.822 --> 01:17:32.962
Don't be a real dick.

01:17:32.962 --> 01:17:33.462
All right.

01:17:33.462 --> 01:17:34.481
Don't be a murder bot.

01:17:34.481 --> 01:17:36.301
You know, Paul Pope always tips 20%.

01:17:36.301 --> 01:17:36.881
I already know.

01:17:36.881 --> 01:17:38.122
I don't, I didn't ask him.

01:17:38.122 --> 01:17:41.402
We obviously didn't talk about it in the episode, but at least I'm a hundred percent positive.

01:17:41.402 --> 01:17:42.362
At least at least.

01:17:42.362 --> 01:17:44.282
Bare minimum as you should as well.

01:17:44.282 --> 01:17:46.282
So thank you all so much for listening to the Oblivion Bar this week.

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We appreciate it.

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We will see you next week for episode 199 of the show.