INTERVIEW: David Harper

WEBVTT

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Ahem.

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Joining me today is the owner and operator of the Eisner nominated subscription based comic book site, sketched, which is the research driven, excuse me, which is a research, I see I'm already.

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It's cause I'm watching.

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It's what?

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I'm watching.

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There you go.

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issues when you look at me, ah which is the research driven form that aims not just to look deeper into the comics that we love, but also the creators that make them.

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He is also the host of Off Panel, the weekly interview podcast that as superstar comic book creator Declan Shelby puts it, an oasis of great discussion on comics and the craft of making them.

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Every new show is the highlight of my week as I know I'll learn something new with every episode.

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It is my pleasure to welcome my friend David Harbour back onto the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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I'm here, hello.

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Also, I wanna give you a shout out.

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Thank you for using one of my poll quotes from creators, which I'm very proud of, and I have not updated in six years, but I'm still like Stuart Eminen, Fiona Staples, Jen Bartel, Declan Chauvy.

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Can't ask for much better.

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yeah, no kidding.

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Let me ask you really off the wall random questions to start us off here today because we have a lot to get to here in this episode.

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First of all, so great to have you here back on the Oblivion Bar.

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Last time you were on was in 2021.

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So great to have you back.

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But secondly, where is Jen Bartel?

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Where in the world is Jen Bartel?

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Where's that at?

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Where's that article?

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don't have my Jen Bartel GPS tracker on me right now, but uh I think she's doing lots of stuff that we just don't know about.

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I'm trying to think of the last covers that she was doing.

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She was doing those covers consistently for She-Hulk, the Rainbow Rolls run.

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And then the last thing I think she kind of popped up on when it came to comic book conversation was that her art was being used without pay for Marvel Rivals, I think it was.

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And then we haven't seen her since and I think it probably has more to do with the things that she's doing and less to do with anything that came up with that.

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Jen's like designing shoes.

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Jen's doing really cool stuff.

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I think if Jen's not in the public focus it's because she's doing something amazing we just don't know about yet.

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It just kind of bums me out and I that I haven't seen anything recently not just in comics but in general and obviously she like you said she's sort of off the socials which I totally get and understand I'm not definitely not chastising her for that at all.

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But like gosh, I just want more Jen Bartel and if she pops her head out and presents something I'm gonna be the first one in line to get it.

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I just like I said, I know she's been on your show and she's been on my short list for a long time here on the oblivion bar at you know at some point which is here's a here's a fun side story just a quick segue off the top here in this recording.

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is that when we first started the Oblivion Bar in April of 2020, one of the very first people that I reached out to to get on the show was Jen Bartel.

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And to her credit, she immediately was like, she replied within like a couple of days and was like, yeah, that'd be great.

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Yeah, but when's it good for you?

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And this must've been right around the time of New York Comic-Con, because I saw her at New York Comic-Con and either I completely freaked her out at the show when I met her or she got really busy from there on because I hadn't heard anything from her since.

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I'm gonna guess the latter, that could not November 2020 though, like, cause Yeah, it somewhere in that time frame, I'm pretty sure.

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I was gonna say, because I don't think New York Comic Con happened in 2020.

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Maybe it was, maybe, hmm, this is interesting.

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Now I'm getting, time is a construct, know?

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Like all of this is, you know, those three or four years between 2019 and 2023 are really, you know, they're, yeah.

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It's not a single year, it's just like a epoch.

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Or, it's just like this long period of time that is a solid beam of just whatever.

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I don't know when exactly I saw her afterwards, but I definitely did and she was really great and warm and so, know, just just like the best, right?

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But then I haven't heard from her since and now that has most of the comic world.

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But Jen, if you're listening for whatever reason to this episode, please come back and share some of the stuff you've been working on.

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I'd love to see it.

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I'm sure David would too.

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Hey, Jen, if you're listening, but David, let's get to you here because, you know, it's been, I don't know, a couple of months now.

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And I think it's important that we discuss something.

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I think maybe one of the most important hot topics we have here on this episode, you know, we have to discuss what happened on June 22nd.

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Have you healed enough from June 22nd to our beloved Indiana Pacers and that game seven of the NBA finals?

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I thought you were going to talk about one of the many, many imperiled things that happened to me so far this year.

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Have I healed from the pacer's losing?

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I've healed from the pacer's losing.

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I don't know if I've healed from Tyrese Halliburton tearing his Achilles and Miles Turner leaving to become a Milwaukee buck.

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Well, there's no way you called him become, I was going to say, yeah.

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I mean, As we've discussed over text message before, I am very much on the high end of Pacers fans of Miles Turner love.

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He was my favorite Pacer and he was my number two behind Reggie Miller.

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So losing him, huge bummer for me.

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Tyrese being out.

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I'm, I feel great.

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I mean, honestly, I love weird, like there was this game last year where the Pacers played the Minnesota Timberwolves and everyone was out.

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Tyrese was out.

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Pascal Siakam set out for like the first game the entire season, Miles Turner was out.

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It was all like the second team guys.

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And then like midway through the game, Andrew Nemhart was the only starter who was playing.

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He got ejected for like kind of half punching Rudy Gobert.

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And so it was just second and third string guys and they won and it was so fun to watch.

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And so there's a really like hardcore fan NBA, Indiana Pacers, sicko fan of myself side that is like about watching this weirdo team that we're about to see this upcoming season.

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So I'm gonna say I've recovered and I'm now cautiously optimistic to the point where I made a statement on my episode with Kyle Starks recently off panel that they were going to make the playoffs.

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Will I be right?

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I don't know, but who cares?

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It'll be fun to find out.

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What's the division looking like this year?

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I Milwaukee is going to be okay, right?

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uh okay.

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I mean, the problem is, not the problem, the delight is that the East is terrible.

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And so there's a very reasonable chance that the Pacers will be a mediocre team filled with teams that aspire to mediocrity.

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So we'll see what that lands on.

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But yeah, the Pacers, uh it's gonna be a weird season.

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It's gonna be a gap year, but I have faith that they will come through this stronger.

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And I just hope that they like put Pascal Siakam and TJ McConnell in like a cryogenic chamber like Demolition Man style for the entire season so next year they'll come back and they'll still be the same age.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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I know no one besides, you know, maybe two or three people, but specifically David and I really care about this Pacers talk, but I have one more question for you with the Pacers because I don't know if folks listen to this.

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No, I I'm in Indianapolis and Pacers nation was on fire.

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The, know, that month or so of the playoff month and a half of playoffs.

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And, know, no one ever wavered until that moment in game seven with Tyrese.

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And I'm just curious to go to that exact moment because I have this perverse sort of I guess interest in where you were where you're at what you were thinking in that moment because we talked a lot leading up to the Game seven, know final game But then like you and I sort of I think both of us are sort of without saying anything Accepted that we're not gonna talk about the Pacers for a bit until right now.

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So Let me ask you that evening Where were you at?

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How did you react?

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How did you cope all those things?

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During the game and I guess maybe directly afterwards Um, don't talk to people during the games not because I'm a psycho but because it's just better self-preservation I just like I watch the games by myself So it was downstairs on my couch as soon as he tore his Achilles I knew I mean I like the Pacers had two players that tore their Achilles earlier in the year the first like five games of the season and You just know it you've seen I've watched enough basketball.

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You just see it and you know, so if you see any athlete that they're like sort of buckles like that, you know something bad has happened.

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It's not just that, it's just like the movement plus him going down and it's like instantaneously.

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Plus like that was the most high risk thing with him having a calf strain.

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So I went upstairs and I told my wife very depressingly that Terry's halibut just tore his Achilles and that sucks, but Pacers still got a chance.

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And so I was still optimistic going into halftime because they were up by one.

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Yeah, and then like TJ McConnell tried to turn into like, I don't know.

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basketball Jesus on the court and like try to carry them through the third quarter but the problem is is they just stopped having a functional offense and Honestly, I think some of the guys were just shell-shocked because of what happened I was shell-shocked and I was on my couch in Alaska they were watching it happen live with some of they know very closely and so I Don't blame them uh bar in Indianapolis and to like to properly explain what happened in that bar, it was was full of energy.

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You could have cut the energy with a butter knife.

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It was thick like everyone was feeling it.

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They were I mean, it was was amazing.

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Honestly, it really cool to see everyone show out for that game.

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But as soon as you see Tyrese going down before they even announced that he had tore anything, you could just feel the air evaporate like it was wild.

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And then like, as you said, like going in a halftime.

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The team was still playing pretty well and I don't think Oklahoma knew how to play the Pacers without Tyrese, right?

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Like they were having a tough time figuring out how to properly play this team.

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And then think at halftime they made some adjustments and I think talent at the end of day, you know, sort of figures it out, right?

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So yeah.

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they were a better team, to be honest, but at the same time, okay, they were a more talented team.

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I don't know if they were a better team overall.

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I will say, one of the things that I carry with me is the fact that I listened to a podcast the next day.

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I think it was either Zack Lowe Show or Bill Simmons podcast with Zack Lowe.

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Zack Lowe's my guy.

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I will listen to anything he does.

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He's a NBA journalist and podcaster.

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And they talked about how, like for the...

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Maybe the first time in NBA history, the team that they'll remember from the season was the runner-up, not the champion.

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And that, I mean, that stuff is great.

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Like, I'm a firm believer in the journey is as important as the end result.

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And the Pacers were a wonderful journey.

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Did it end in a dark place?

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Yes, but that's okay.

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Sometimes that happens.

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And I'm so thankful for the journey.

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Mm-hmm.

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I often equate the same thing to like award wins, you know specifically talking about here on the show with like Eisner noms like I'm a firm believer that the Eisner nom is as important as the win most of the time because it just it's a recognition from a body of folks that love the medium as much as you me and everybody else that you're doing something really special so like even if you don't win and Like if Tom King if you're listening this right now He is like one of the like source losers when it comes to the eyes if you've ever been around him after aizer loss, he needs to hear this every single time, is that like the NAMM is so important, you know, like that means so much.

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So ah I totally agree with you there.

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It is totally about the journey.

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But took a loser's picture with him after we lost in 2024.

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It's funny, I like you saying that because I've been nominated twice and lost both times.

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And so I agree.

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or nomination equally important as the win, equally.

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it's, you know, it's funny is that I actually didn't know that you were nominated twice until preparing for our conversation today, which I'm not really treating this.

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And I don't mean to like admit this to you in like a negative way, but like, I'm not necessarily treating this as like a.

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A creator interview necessarily.

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This is a, I think more of a conversation with a friend who I also admire and, you know, appear in all those things, but like doing research for this conversation, something I noticed was that, yeah, you were nominated with multi, multi, multiversity.

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Thank you.

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I was going to say it wrong, but.

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Multiversity.

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Yeah, you were nominated then as well.

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And then of course with sketched a couple of years ago.

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So yeah, that's, that's incredible.

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And I do want to kind of like tie this into my next question here.

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My, I my first actual question here in our conversation, uh, you know, we've obviously talked a lot as we've mentioned since first meeting back in 2021 when you were on the show.

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Uh, we've even met a couple of times at these cons over the years, but the last time you chatted again was on July 26th, uh, for episode 47 of the oblivion bar podcast episode 47, just celebrated.

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800 now or something?

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It feels like it where I think it's like episode two or three or something, you know, legacy numbers.

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Right.

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That's right.

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Yeah.

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Great is like 240.

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I don't even know what it's like 500 close to that.

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If not.

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But point being is that I really said that episode with us from back in 2021 and actually for everyone listening right now, don't listen to any oblivion bar episode that's like a year old a year or older.

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Like that's it's not good.

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I was mortified the entire time, but uh I will say that like The thing that they don't often tell you about podcasting is that like when you have folks on that you admire, it's really hard to not just butter them up the entire time and talk about how much you admire them.

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So, uh, you know, speaking on how you handle that tension between being, you know, both a critic and a fan.

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When you sit down and prepare for conversations with the creators on off panel, what are some tangible preparation?

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Uh, we'll call them pillars that you sort of structure your, your questions and the conversation around.

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Hmm.

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That is a very good question.

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I saw somebody once point out that when somebody says that's a very good question, it's not actually them complimenting it, it's really them wasting time.

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Yeah, and I, just like with the Eisner nomination thing, I choose to believe that everyone really thinks that I have a good question when they say that.

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I think that my main pillars are, I don't, it's not that I'm not going to compliment people, but I definitely don't go out of my way to just like, you know, me complimenting them, honestly, I find that, I know this is not the point of your question, but I'll get to the point here in a second.

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I feel like complimenting people on your show or during an interview and stuff, they can't really do anything with that, right?

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Because if you compliment them, all they're gonna be like, thank you.

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And then like, I'm glad that you liked it.

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Yeah, exactly.

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There's not a lot for them to build off there.

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So the pillars I have are, I try to, I mean, I think part of this, it's hard for me to reconcile two different sides, the intent side and then the conversational side, because I go in with an extended plan of what I'm going to talk about, and then I pretty much instantaneously throw it away as soon as I start doing it, because I just start doing my own thing.

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And it's funny, because now that I have video stuff up on YouTube for off panel and you can see me doing it, you can see how much I'm just making shit up on the fly.

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ah which is really funny.

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But my main pillars are I want to ask people questions that they don't normally get.

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ah I want to aim for things that are less about the book and more about the person.

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And I want to, if there's an opportunity to build on something that's in specific, I try to never leave that behind.

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Because I find that one of the things that You know, if you've done this for long enough, and I'm sure you do this too, is like when you listen to an interview of any variety, or if you read an interview of any variety, you can see the points where you could have taken a different turn.

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There's a, you ever see that Gwyneth Paltrow movie, Sliding Doors?

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Ah, absolute delight, highly recommended.

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ah It is a romantic comedy about a situation where a woman is heading home and the doors on uh the metro are the...

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forgot what, whatever, the British, the London train, the uh close and she makes it in beforehand and then it shows a parallel life where she doesn't make it in and how her life changes upon that.

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And so I find that like the sliding doors moment is constantly there for do you take this route or do you not take this route?

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My choice is to always take that route unless it's like we're way down a path about talking about like.

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How you used to eat Oreos when you were a kid or something like that?

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So it's really about just like trying to follow the conversation naturally and try not to be too prescriptive of about how I approach stuff because If I just try to plan the whole thing out It's going to result in I don't know something that feels too structured like here's good example.

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You're a football fan I know that because we're gonna do something later that involves the sport Are you familiar with how Sean McVeiss plans out his offense for the Los Angeles Rams?

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Doesn't he plan out the first drive of every game?

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Okay, yeah.

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So he plans out the first 15 plays and then the rest is just like, let's just react.

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I'm kind of like that, plan out those plays, you know where you're going in with, and then from there just see what happens.

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Yeah.

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So let me ask you this to sort of build off that.

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Cause I agree with you.

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That's something you definitely have to learn for anyone that's listening to us.

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That is either podcasting currently or once the podcast or just sort of as interested in the interview process.

00:17:24.021 --> 00:17:41.679
Uh, and I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert in any of this, something I've learned over the last five years of the oblivion bar is that you at some point have to trust yourself enough to go in with a transcript, you know, cause again, I'm pretty extensive with my transcripts when it comes to the interviews, but you have to trust yourself enough to lay out a foundation of questions.

00:17:41.679 --> 00:17:47.862
And then be okay not asking all those questions because again, as you said, you have to be able to follow people down a path if it's interesting.

00:17:47.862 --> 00:17:52.943
And I had to learn that because again, as you said, it gets pretty wooden if you just ask the questions.

00:17:52.943 --> 00:18:05.147
I do something that I, again, I'm sort of reversely interested in when it comes to listening to other people's podcasts, off panel included is figuring out how they get back or at least recognizing when they are trying to get back on track.

00:18:05.147 --> 00:18:19.093
I love, you, I can always tell when you do this because you'll quickly respond to something a creator has said, and you go, but let me, I wanna get back to, and then you go, yeah, you wanna get back to your question, which is an obvious sort of transition.

00:18:19.113 --> 00:18:23.109
I do a similar thing, but in a less sort of smooth way.

00:18:23.109 --> 00:18:27.275
I will try to tie, I've done this a couple times, and I hate that I do this.

00:18:27.454 --> 00:18:34.537
I will try to tie in their response to my next question, even if it has nothing to do with the response that they had given.

00:18:35.557 --> 00:18:37.897
Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

00:18:38.095 --> 00:18:52.998
I mean, part of the thing is, like, I think that one of the things that people have problems with when it comes to interviews, honestly engaging with comic creators when it comes to the, you know, this side of things, is that there's two things.

00:18:52.998 --> 00:18:59.324
One, you put creators on a pedestal and you act like they're not just people and they're just people.

00:18:59.324 --> 00:19:10.130
And then the other thing I think is that I don't think people trust themselves enough because the thing that makes us good at this in theory is that we're passionate and knowledgeable.

00:19:10.130 --> 00:19:18.993
And like honestly, I look at my planning document less as a script and more as a scouting report, if that makes sense.

00:19:18.993 --> 00:19:31.939
It's more about like knowing what the opponent, in this case my guest, they're my opponent, ah what my opponent typically responds to, what they don't respond to, and then how to act accordingly.

00:19:31.939 --> 00:19:36.634
And then it's just, I should have asked this before, you don't mind if I curse, right?

00:19:36.634 --> 00:19:38.815
Please, It's just a bullshit factory from there.

00:19:38.815 --> 00:19:40.876
It's just like, mean, here's a good example.

00:19:40.876 --> 00:19:44.098
Like uh I just had Jesse Lonergan on the podcast.

00:19:44.098 --> 00:19:47.641
It'll have gone up by the time this goes up, I believe.

00:19:47.642 --> 00:20:00.361
And like, I have this one section where I knew I was gonna ask him about this, where I brought up the idea that Drome, his new graphic novel is propaganda for simple machines, which he thought was hilarious.

00:20:00.361 --> 00:20:12.864
And so I knew he would think it was hilarious, but then like, There was another section that was entirely based on something that we talked about before we even started recording that I hadn't even planned on talking about where we were talking about Bill Watterson, the creator of Calvin and Hobbes.

00:20:12.864 --> 00:20:24.303
So I brought that back in and it's just like, know your stuff enough so when you actually get to the moment where you can choose go or no go, that you feel good enough to just go, trust yourself.

00:20:24.303 --> 00:20:30.507
Like trusting yourself is I think something that you only gain with repetition, but I think more people would benefit from.

00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:31.830
Yeah, totally agree.

00:20:31.830 --> 00:20:32.570
Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:32.570 --> 00:20:35.103
It is so much about staying water, right?

00:20:35.103 --> 00:20:41.156
Being flexible in a conversation and be able to trust again your knowledge and also like your ability to just have a normal conversation.

00:20:41.156 --> 00:20:51.483
Cause a lot of times, as you said, these creators, and this is a big lesson I had to learn a shout out to Philip Kennedy Johnson, our first guest ever, who I just like gave way too many compliments to.

00:20:51.569 --> 00:20:58.088
Uh, you have to like understand that these are just talented nerds they just want to have a conversation about their work or sometimes not even that.

00:20:58.088 --> 00:21:06.727
How many times I've been in a conversation with a creator and they like so don't want to talk about the thing that they're there on the show to talk about, which is funny to me every single time.

00:21:06.727 --> 00:21:09.479
But it's just sort of recognizing those things.

00:21:09.479 --> 00:21:15.392
And again, as you said, trusting yourself enough to be flexible in that conversation and you do an incredible job of that.

00:21:15.392 --> 00:21:21.997
That's I think part of the reason why I've always admired both your work on, you know, within sketch, but also specifically on off panel.

00:21:21.997 --> 00:21:27.861
And part of the reason why, and I'll mention this a couple of times and this is a, we're talking about not buttering up your guests.

00:21:27.861 --> 00:21:29.210
Here's a quick butter up of.

00:21:29.210 --> 00:21:34.271
of David Harper is that like the oblivion bar would not happen without off panel.

00:21:34.271 --> 00:21:34.741
It wouldn't.

00:21:34.741 --> 00:21:36.123
I mean, it's not just off panel.

00:21:36.123 --> 00:21:50.719
Like you are definitely one of many inspirations for the show, but like your ability to have a very casual, comfortable conversation that is both insightful and entertaining is something that we have always strived for on the show, but in a very different way, you know, like at least hopefully in a different way.

00:21:51.019 --> 00:21:52.490
you know, that's all you can ask for.

00:21:52.490 --> 00:21:57.541
I guess that's a compliment slash when you, here's a question attached to it.

00:21:57.541 --> 00:22:04.679
uh How do you feel like your interview style, let me phrase this in a slightly different way.

00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:12.869
And I guess in the most significant way, how do you feel like your interview style has changed since the beginning of off panel compared to August 2025?

00:22:13.457 --> 00:22:16.459
um I think that there's two main things.

00:22:16.459 --> 00:22:21.983
One is a content thing and the other one is style.

00:22:21.983 --> 00:22:27.228
Content, when I first started, one of my big focuses on sketch and off panel was business.

00:22:27.228 --> 00:22:34.212
And so I talked a lot about business stuff with people and I still do, but that is less of the focus these days.

00:22:34.212 --> 00:22:49.425
uh I think that a lot of it has shifted more towards just talking to them like people because I think that I've stopped trying to be something that I thought was a good fit for me and just am what I am to Popeye.

00:22:49.425 --> 00:22:53.748
ah Exactly.

00:22:53.748 --> 00:23:04.334
And then the other thing is I think that I've just grown more comfortable being myself and grown more comfortable just taking those paths that I talked about.

00:23:04.334 --> 00:23:09.326
I think that I've been there for a long time, but it's just I went from being like.

00:23:10.096 --> 00:23:16.111
20 % of the time in beginning, I would take those paths to like now somehow 109 % of the time I take those paths.

00:23:16.111 --> 00:23:18.603
Like I'm taking those paths before I even ask my real questions.

00:23:18.603 --> 00:23:27.278
ah And so I think that that's the biggest ways that I've evolved is uh towards naturalism and away from business, if that makes sense.

00:23:27.289 --> 00:23:27.611
Sure.

00:23:27.611 --> 00:23:28.240
No, absolutely.

00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:29.352
totally does.

00:23:29.432 --> 00:23:43.951
Now I want to shift to something that I guess is maybe a little more serious, but I guess I do want to approach it with some levity and maybe some insight because I don't want to tread in the territory of I definitely don't want to make you uncomfortable this question, David, but I okay.

00:23:43.951 --> 00:23:51.865
already brought up the fact that the Pacers lost and like, if you brought up the fact I had a heart attack or lost my job, it is gonna be less important to me than that, so.

00:23:51.865 --> 00:23:54.446
Well, let's get on to the job loss then.

00:23:55.406 --> 00:23:59.646
know, 2025 obviously, as you mentioned earlier, has not been an ideal for anyone.

00:23:59.646 --> 00:24:11.106
think, you know, anyone who was like somewhat normal or has like decent morals 2025 has been a wild year, but I think like you have had a very specific lead, I guess, challenging year 2025.

00:24:12.446 --> 00:24:12.987
Right.

00:24:12.987 --> 00:24:16.730
You know, and I'm obviously referring to on July 17th.

00:24:16.730 --> 00:24:23.230
you announced on a post on Instagram that you were laid off from your job after 13 years, which was crazy to see.

00:24:23.509 --> 00:24:31.250
I'm just curious if, and again, please share as much as you're comfortable with, but can you walk us through how you were first reacted to that moment?

00:24:31.250 --> 00:24:41.109
And then also, how did you ultimately decide that going to off panel and sketched, going to that full time was gonna be your job going forward?

00:24:41.713 --> 00:24:57.805
So the funny thing about this is like it seems like it's something that would be really traumatic because you know, and I do think it's worth mentioning back in May I also had like a cardiac event which turned out to be a heart attack and pericarditis and like two months of like horrible appointments and stuff like that.

00:24:58.066 --> 00:25:07.553
And that was like if it weren't for the fact that those things were happening and I was still having to go to doctors and I was losing my insurance I wouldn't have been really that worried about it.

00:25:07.553 --> 00:25:10.663
But the funny thing is is I knew it was coming.

00:25:10.663 --> 00:25:13.464
I knew I was getting laid off just because I could read.

00:25:13.464 --> 00:25:15.106
I'm very good at reading situations.

00:25:15.106 --> 00:25:16.478
Maybe that's why I'm a good interviewer.

00:25:16.478 --> 00:25:17.387
I don't know.

00:25:17.387 --> 00:25:22.511
But I tend to have a pretty good idea of what's coming before it comes.

00:25:22.673 --> 00:25:25.474
And I knew it and I was worried sick.

00:25:25.474 --> 00:25:29.738
Like literally like I felt horrible to that point.

00:25:29.858 --> 00:25:35.962
And the next morning I went in and I had the meeting that happened that where I was laid off.

00:25:36.003 --> 00:25:41.840
And this this is going to sound like I don't know, self propaganda or something like that.

00:25:41.840 --> 00:25:49.586
But afterwards I called my mom and she was like, I was just talking to her and she was like, so you didn't get laid off?

00:25:49.586 --> 00:25:50.587
And I was like, no, I did.

00:25:50.587 --> 00:25:53.029
And I was like, why do you think I didn't get laid off?

00:25:53.029 --> 00:25:54.810
And she's like, you sound so happy.

00:25:55.231 --> 00:26:01.435
And I was in, in that moment, it was like an instant catharsis.

00:26:01.497 --> 00:26:03.428
I felt great.

00:26:03.428 --> 00:26:16.007
And in that moment, I instantly knew that I wanted to try to do something that I never would have tried otherwise, which is, what would happen if I just tried to do sketching off panels, my main job, and tried to build supplementary things around it?

00:26:16.007 --> 00:26:18.042
um when is this going?

00:26:18.042 --> 00:26:19.849
This is going up to 22nd?

00:26:20.326 --> 00:26:25.874
yeah, we're to put this out the same week that we're having this because everyone at home we're going to we're recording this on Tuesday, August 19th.

00:26:25.874 --> 00:26:29.006
I'll be putting it out that Friday, which I want to say is the 22nd.

00:26:29.006 --> 00:26:29.327
Yep.

00:26:29.327 --> 00:26:30.157
Yeah, okay.

00:26:30.157 --> 00:26:35.181
So I can't say some of the things that come up, but I have other writing things that I have coming.

00:26:35.181 --> 00:26:42.303
I'm doing paid work for my local comic shop where I'll be doing an email newsletter recommending comics for them every single week.

00:26:42.303 --> 00:26:57.410
And so I've tried taking my skill set and saying, can I do this for other things, other platforms, other sites, and try to uh supplement the work that I do and try to turn it into a real job.

00:26:57.470 --> 00:26:58.041
And...

00:26:58.041 --> 00:27:03.105
at the same time trying to make some cuts to see if I could make it a little financially responsible.

00:27:03.226 --> 00:27:13.535
But the thing is, like, sometimes like you could spend your entire life grinding through something you don't love because you think you should.

00:27:13.535 --> 00:27:20.400
And because it seems like the responsible thing to do when you really in your heart of hearts want to do something else.

00:27:20.441 --> 00:27:22.672
Is that hosting a comic book podcast?

00:27:22.672 --> 00:27:25.464
Is that embracing the glory of dance?

00:27:25.464 --> 00:27:29.760
Is that, I don't know, becoming a I don't know.

00:27:31.162 --> 00:27:32.071
Still, man.

00:27:32.376 --> 00:27:33.907
stuntman, yeah exactly.

00:27:33.907 --> 00:27:40.869
Is there some sort of thing that speaks to you but you wouldn't try because you're too fearful of making that choice?

00:27:40.869 --> 00:27:46.652
I'll tell you what, a really good way for that to be solved for you is when somebody else makes that choice for you.

00:27:46.652 --> 00:27:48.392
And in that moment, I felt awesome.

00:27:48.392 --> 00:27:53.433
ah Was that 100 % a great feeling for the rest of that week?

00:27:53.433 --> 00:27:53.894
No.

00:27:53.894 --> 00:27:57.550
There were moments where I felt really bad about it and I was just very like.

00:27:57.550 --> 00:28:07.134
self-conscious about what it meant about me and where I kind of fit in the world and whether or not I was making a psychotic decision trying to focus on writing about comics and podcasting about comics for a living.

00:28:07.174 --> 00:28:13.357
But I felt really good about the idea of me doing it.

00:28:13.357 --> 00:28:16.640
And then the thing that made me feel even better is the fact that people responded so strongly.

00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:21.763
Like I had more support than I could ever even possibly state.

00:28:21.763 --> 00:28:25.936
and like a number of the amount of which would be irresponsible for me to even say publicly.

00:28:25.936 --> 00:28:33.722
But I will say that in the two weeks afterwards, Sketch grew more in terms of subscribers than it had an entire year as previous.

00:28:33.722 --> 00:28:37.465
ah And sometimes many, many, many more times.

00:28:37.465 --> 00:28:40.008
uh It's actually really crazy.

00:28:40.008 --> 00:28:43.921
like, is it still well under what I was earning at my day job?

00:28:43.921 --> 00:28:46.372
I was the VP of digital at an advertising agency.

00:28:46.372 --> 00:28:48.874
Yeah, but I...

00:28:48.965 --> 00:28:55.080
I'm eating at home more often and I'm making coffee for myself more often and that is not a bad thing.

00:28:55.080 --> 00:28:57.393
I canceled my gym membership and I run outside now.

00:28:57.393 --> 00:28:58.564
These are not bad things.

00:28:58.564 --> 00:29:03.939
These are just, you know, things that I had to change and I feel really great about it.

00:29:03.939 --> 00:29:07.872
uh If you ask me again in six months, I might change, but right now I feel awesome.

00:29:08.829 --> 00:29:22.820
Well, you know kudos to you for staying so optimistic because I know that if I had lost my day job and because I agree with you like I don't think we could do the oblivion bar full-time in its current form but like Do I I feel like I would have the flexibility to maybe figure it out?

00:29:22.820 --> 00:29:44.449
But to be as optimistic as you currently are or were in that moment my gosh I mean I feel like that's such a testament to I think not only you as a person but also your faith and what you're doing both with off-panel and sketched and I'm just curious From a workload standpoint, you already mentioned sort of like the amount of folks who came to your aid immediately and gave you good words of, you know, not only wisdom, but encouragement.

00:29:44.449 --> 00:29:48.851
And, you know, you even said it like financial sort of support as well.

00:29:49.211 --> 00:29:56.384
In terms of workload, do you feel any more pressure to put out more things for both sketched and off panel?

00:29:56.441 --> 00:30:01.683
no, I mean, the thing is, I think I said this before we started recording.

00:30:02.025 --> 00:30:07.627
I don't mean this in a bad way, but I don't really change because of external pressures.

00:30:07.627 --> 00:30:18.406
And so I still have my formula, if you will, where it's like I publish something Monday through Friday on sketched, where the first thing is off panel on Monday.

00:30:18.406 --> 00:30:25.630
And then I have two regular columns, the poll and comics disassembled, which I do on Tuesday and Friday, and then Wednesday and Thursday are kind of feature pieces.

00:30:25.630 --> 00:30:30.991
I've already had people tell me I write way too much for them to even keep up with because I write really long articles.

00:30:30.991 --> 00:30:43.416
And so I think it's less about the quantity and it's more about having more time to make bigger plans, to make sure that everything is great.

00:30:43.698 --> 00:30:57.115
And it's allowing me to really focus on making sure that the stuff that I'm delivering, it's not that I've ever published anything that I'm not proud of, but what if I was even prouder of it?

00:30:57.196 --> 00:30:58.938
Like, it be 20 % better?

00:30:58.938 --> 00:31:11.530
Like tomorrow, uh which is two days previous of when this goes up, I have a feature going up that is about Jeff Smith's bone and when it published in Disney Adventures Magazine in the 1990s.

00:31:11.570 --> 00:31:17.683
And it is the retrospective about it and the story of how it came together and all the players are involved.

00:31:17.683 --> 00:31:19.724
And it's an amazingly star-studded lineup.

00:31:19.724 --> 00:31:22.816
It's like Jeff Smith, obviously, I talked to him for it.

00:31:23.076 --> 00:31:33.441
The person who brought it into the magazine was Marv Wolfman, the writer and editor from Marvel and DC history, who was at the time the comics editor for Disney Adventures.

00:31:33.441 --> 00:31:37.491
His assistant or associate comics editor at the time was Heidi McDonald from The Beat.

00:31:37.491 --> 00:31:45.112
And then when she took over from Marv and eventually brought it back in 1997, her assistant was Cliff Chang, the artist.

00:31:45.112 --> 00:31:53.251
And so I talked to all of them and like, actually think that Heidi has never experienced like hardcore researcher David.

00:31:53.251 --> 00:31:57.471
And I think that she's been like, why are you asking me so many goddamn questions about this, David?

00:31:57.471 --> 00:32:03.192
Like yesterday I was talking to her on the phone about clarifying this one specific detail and she's like, you're really focused on this.

00:32:03.192 --> 00:32:04.711
I'm like, I try to get things right.

00:32:04.711 --> 00:32:05.962
And so.

00:32:06.050 --> 00:32:13.634
I wouldn't have been able to have those, I'm trying to get these things right conversations without this new world that I, my new setup.

00:32:13.634 --> 00:32:29.131
And I just think that it's going to result in better things and it's going to result in me being able to do things I hadn't been able to do previous, like doing video, at least in part, thanks to Riverside and Chris Hacker right here, the person who taught me how to use what is called a new tool.

00:32:29.131 --> 00:32:31.441
I haven't learned one of those in a while.

00:32:32.582 --> 00:32:33.432
I know it's crazy.

00:32:33.432 --> 00:32:35.750
I didn't realize that there is video.

00:32:35.750 --> 00:32:37.961
But I guess that's what AV always stood for, right?

00:32:37.961 --> 00:32:40.773
It's not just audio, it's audio video.

00:32:40.773 --> 00:32:49.471
And so I've been learning a lot of new things and I've been excited about trying some new directions and I have a bunch of really big pieces that I have coming up.

00:32:49.471 --> 00:33:09.355
I don't, like the thing is, like, I've always kind of found that like, I'm, I'm very efficient with my time and I'm very good at kind of juggling things and removing my entire day job has made it so, I don't like people are like, can you get this to me like next week?

00:33:09.355 --> 00:33:12.115
I'm like, I can get it to you like tomorrow if you want.

00:33:12.856 --> 00:33:16.238
it's I know it's like a lot of this stuff.

00:33:16.238 --> 00:33:25.259
I'm trying not to sound like braggy, but I mean, a lot of stuff is went from being like, this was already fairly easy to me for me to being like, this is like psychotically easy.

00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:26.411
Like this is far too easy.

00:33:26.411 --> 00:33:28.381
I'm like playing a game with no damage right now.

00:33:28.381 --> 00:33:29.521
I can't die.

00:33:29.521 --> 00:33:32.432
So uh yeah, I mean, I think that's mostly it.

00:33:32.432 --> 00:33:37.827
It's less about adding to the quantity and add instead it's more about adding to the quality.

00:33:37.861 --> 00:33:38.391
Sure.

00:33:38.391 --> 00:33:39.182
Well, let me ask you this.

00:33:39.182 --> 00:33:41.813
Let me flip that last statement you had there on it's had a little bit.

00:33:41.813 --> 00:33:52.171
Is there anything not only with sketch and sort of the, will, I know you said you sort of have a, I don't know, a weird view of the term journalists.

00:33:52.171 --> 00:33:57.555
Like, you said you've mentioned that in some of your, and your sketch books before, but right.

00:33:57.555 --> 00:33:58.085
Yeah.

00:33:58.085 --> 00:34:00.477
But I'm just curious, like what is challenging to you?

00:34:00.477 --> 00:34:05.849
Are there certain avenues within both sketched and off panel that you just find endlessly?

00:34:06.253 --> 00:34:08.893
tedious and hard to wrap your head around.

00:34:08.925 --> 00:34:10.016
I wouldn't say tedious.

00:34:10.016 --> 00:34:16.739
My problem is, is I'm one person and idea generation is fundamentally a limiting factor.

00:34:16.739 --> 00:34:27.885
And so it's like, I currently have ideas that are building out into like October, but like once I get to October and I don't have anything else built out, built out, what's next?

00:34:27.885 --> 00:34:30.126
The only person who can answer that is me.

00:34:30.226 --> 00:34:36.130
And unfortunately it's like, ideas are always going to be a constraint.

00:34:36.130 --> 00:34:37.931
uh Excuse me.

00:34:39.474 --> 00:34:44.755
there will always be a constraint and that's gonna be a challenge.

00:34:44.775 --> 00:34:53.835
And part of it is, I have friends who do this stuff and one of them I'm going to do some calls with where we're going to brainstorm together and do stuff like that.

00:34:53.855 --> 00:34:55.114
Excuse me.

00:34:55.735 --> 00:35:01.815
I'm doing a regular piece with my buddy Oliver Saba, a comic critic who, Eisner Award winning.

00:35:01.815 --> 00:35:05.855
I'll have to ask him if he feels like winning made a big difference.

00:35:05.891 --> 00:35:14.092
He we're doing a regular column and we're going to be doing a one of my like typically most listen to podcasts in the superhero state of the union really soon.

00:35:14.092 --> 00:35:19.224
But just talking with him like helps me and like talking with people like you getting outside perspectives.

00:35:19.224 --> 00:35:25.836
This gives me time to like just get on a call with somebody and just be like, what do you think should be happening that's not happening?

00:35:26.097 --> 00:35:29.257
And I think that's that will help with idea generation.

00:35:29.257 --> 00:35:32.451
The other problem I have is.

00:35:32.451 --> 00:35:38.945
uh something our pals, Brad and Lisa Gullickson are exceptional at, which is they're great at marketing stuff.

00:35:38.945 --> 00:35:40.527
I'm very resistant at it.

00:35:40.527 --> 00:35:43.367
ah I am an artiste.

00:35:43.367 --> 00:35:45.728
I want my work to stand for itself.

00:35:45.728 --> 00:35:54.949
I told you before we started recording completely seriously that my ideal result is for people to read what I do and then enjoy it privately and never tell me about it.

00:35:55.070 --> 00:35:57.820
And I'm not kidding when I say that.

00:35:57.820 --> 00:36:02.672
Like I want my work to resonate with people and I want it to connect.

00:36:02.695 --> 00:36:08.710
But like there have been times where my wife Amber and I are like talking to somebody who's like, I like comics.

00:36:08.710 --> 00:36:10.041
What's your podcast about?

00:36:10.041 --> 00:36:13.643
And I will like actively talk them out of listening to my podcast.

00:36:13.902 --> 00:36:15.503
And it's it's like nonsense.

00:36:15.503 --> 00:36:17.135
Yeah, you don't want to.

00:36:17.135 --> 00:36:20.387
I mean, like maybe if there's a guest you enjoy, I guess.

00:36:20.387 --> 00:36:28.331
But it's I have had to get over that part of me being a thing because.

00:36:29.061 --> 00:36:57.862
I need to do a better job of promoting what I do both for myself and for the people that I talk to because I think I do something worthwhile and I think that it's worth sharing with people and trying to find the balance between promoting it and not being grossed out by it is like a very, I'm having to move that line and it's an adjustment and I'm taking my time to get there but I think that I've gotten a little bit better about it but ah baby steps.

00:36:58.115 --> 00:38:03.251
think that adjustment you're talking about is something that a lot of us struggle with I know I've talked to both Brad and Lisa about this and and other friends in the podcasting world that a lot of us are normal people that just like talking about comics and we would love to just put things out into the ether and hope that it's like At least listen to by someone I know again you say you don't really care about that but like for I know for me because I'm uh a Narcissist I want people to listen to the oblivion bar at least you know I don't want everyone to listen to it and I don't want to be like Joe Rogan or call her daddy, but I do want like comic fans to enjoy it and listen to it and all those things but There is there's a part of you that sort of has to like build up a certain amount of shamelessness You know that comes along with like promoting a thing that again as you said you're proud of and you think people Are going may or may not like I don't know like it is tough it's definitely one of those things and I don't really know what the Recipe is for that because there are people in our space and I'm not gonna I'm not trying to badmouth anyone who does like content creation for comics, but like I can't just like, and I've tried doing this, David, I can't do it is like look into a phone and talk into a phone in an empty room by myself about a thing.

00:38:03.251 --> 00:38:08.416
I like, I have to bounce words off of another person's face like you right now.

00:38:08.416 --> 00:38:11.518
I can't just like talk into a phone and put it out there and help people watch it.

00:38:11.518 --> 00:38:13.750
Like, you know, certain, certain other creators.

00:38:13.750 --> 00:38:16.681
So I haven't reached that point, right?

00:38:16.681 --> 00:38:20.954
But like, it is one those things that, yeah, you do have to kind of be your own advocate.

00:38:20.954 --> 00:38:22.945
have to like marketing.

00:38:23.242 --> 00:38:31.206
I'm trying remember who says this exactly, but there was, heard a saying not too long ago that like marketing, the strength in marketing is like being shameless, right?

00:38:31.206 --> 00:38:34.472
Like you have to be shameless and you're in your product.

00:38:35.335 --> 00:38:39.664
I think, I don't think you have to be shameless, but I think it can help.

00:38:39.664 --> 00:38:41.228
I mean, here's a good question for you.

00:38:41.228 --> 00:38:43.981
Who's the most famous comic book creator ever?

00:38:44.728 --> 00:38:46.338
Uh, oof, that's a good question.

00:38:46.338 --> 00:38:47.440
Stan Lee?

00:38:48.007 --> 00:38:48.333
Yeah.

00:38:48.333 --> 00:38:48.835
Stanley.

00:38:48.835 --> 00:38:50.496
Is it because he's the best?

00:38:51.077 --> 00:38:55.322
It's because he's really good at talking about it.

00:38:55.682 --> 00:38:56.844
I mean, like...

00:38:56.914 --> 00:38:58.635
proof of the strategy though?

00:38:58.635 --> 00:39:02.961
He was the most shameless, therefore people often think of him as like a figure.

00:39:02.961 --> 00:39:04.463
he had a carny approach to it.

00:39:04.463 --> 00:39:13.755
I mean he was the face of Marvel even for the decades He didn't work at Marvel And like that's the thing is and like pitching movie studios.

00:39:13.755 --> 00:39:21.762
Yeah, I mean, he was uh running like, POW Entertainment or whatever, all these different companies that had nothing to do with Marvel.

00:39:21.762 --> 00:39:25.923
And if anyone saw him, they would be like, Marvel Comics.

00:39:26.125 --> 00:39:28.186
He is literally the face of Marvel Comics.

00:39:28.186 --> 00:39:31.688
And so, yeah, I mean, like, I do think that there is benefit to that.

00:39:31.688 --> 00:39:32.929
I think it's a fine line.

00:39:32.929 --> 00:39:37.833
And like, I do think that there's no one answer, not implying that you think that.

00:39:37.833 --> 00:39:42.516
But it's trying to find a balance between, like, what you're doing.

00:39:42.744 --> 00:39:46.097
and like what you're comfortable doing and what will be beneficial to you.

00:39:46.097 --> 00:39:50.929
Like I also will not probably be the type of person who's like, I don't know.

00:39:50.929 --> 00:39:56.461
I'm not going to be creating weird influencer videos about like, I'm not going to get a tiny microphone.

00:39:56.461 --> 00:39:57.612
I'm sorry.

00:39:57.751 --> 00:39:59.396
Slander to the tiny microphones.

00:39:59.396 --> 00:40:00.900
have the tiny microphone and I don't use it.

00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:02.003
That's the thing.

00:40:02.490 --> 00:40:07.885
Yeah microphone is if I get the smallest microphone known to man just so I can make the dumbest videos.

00:40:07.885 --> 00:40:19.219
I'm not gonna, okay, and I swear to, this is gonna be like the ultimate like owning me things later because I'm absolutely gonna do all these things.

00:40:19.219 --> 00:40:24.110
But you know like, you know the YouTube face where it's like, never, I'm not gonna do it.

00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:25.751
I'm not gonna do it.

00:40:25.751 --> 00:40:29.592
like the YouTube thumbnail face everyone me make a thumbnail.

00:40:29.592 --> 00:40:36.985
Like I'm not even gonna do it, let alone, unless it accidentally happens where I happen to be going in the picture, it's just not gonna happen.

00:40:36.985 --> 00:40:45.516
And so I think that it's just like, I think everyone's answer for what the right answer is, is very dependent on who they are.

00:40:45.516 --> 00:40:53.559
And like there is, don't, like with interviews, I don't think that there's necessarily a wrong answer beyond not doing something.

00:40:53.559 --> 00:41:04.128
And uh I find that like, The something that I do is like make genuine connections and make things that people seem to really like and want to share.

00:41:04.168 --> 00:41:05.730
And does that work all the time?

00:41:05.730 --> 00:41:07.932
No, but it's working okay so far.

00:41:07.932 --> 00:41:09.894
So let's see if I can keep building on it.

00:41:09.894 --> 00:41:10.876
I mean, here's the thing.

00:41:10.876 --> 00:41:13.528
I've gotten this far with never promoting my stuff.

00:41:13.528 --> 00:41:17.668
If I promote like 10 % of the time, it'd be a massive upgrade.

00:41:17.668 --> 00:41:18.798
We've talked about this.

00:41:18.798 --> 00:41:27.722
I think I've told you this exactly when you, know, and again, I appreciate you coming to me of all people to sort of pick the brain of how to make social media content and such.

00:41:27.722 --> 00:41:40.027
I'm glad that it's at least resonating with you, but like, you know, it's one of those things where you have been so successful with off panel and sketch both without, like you said, without even really putting much effort into that marketing side of things.

00:41:40.027 --> 00:41:41.168
And it's interesting, right?

00:41:41.168 --> 00:41:47.925
Like I can only imagine where the show and the website's going to go now that you're Now that you have Riverside at your disposal within your tool belt, you know, like.

00:41:47.925 --> 00:41:49.746
I mean, maybe it's gonna become a disaster.

00:41:49.746 --> 00:41:58.025
I mean, I'm gonna become so focused on making Riverside clips of like, Kyle Stark's talking about Peyton Pritchard or something that it's not going to actually go anywhere.

00:41:58.025 --> 00:42:01.025
I mean, it's, it is interesting.

00:42:01.025 --> 00:42:08.606
I mean, I think part of the problem for me, just real talk, is that I've been doing this, I started writing about comics in 2009 for Multiversity Comics.

00:42:08.606 --> 00:42:09.666
I was there for five years.

00:42:09.666 --> 00:42:16.186
Then I left, did sketch 1.0, did, I continued doing off panel, did some freelance stuff.

00:42:16.186 --> 00:42:23.250
And I think, I've trained my, trained is a weird word, but you know what I'm saying.

00:42:23.250 --> 00:42:32.204
I've created expectations for what my stuff is to the point where it's like trying to be like, hey, by the way, I'm doing video stuff on YouTube now.

00:42:32.204 --> 00:42:36.525
And then not just being like, why you've been doing it for this long.

00:42:36.525 --> 00:42:36.956
Why?

00:42:36.956 --> 00:42:42.708
Like trying to get them to actually pay attention to it is a fascinating ass because it's like no one asked for it.

00:42:42.708 --> 00:42:43.829
Actually, you know what that is?

00:42:43.829 --> 00:42:48.128
The funny thing though is, I got a lot of response from people who were like, I've been waiting for this for years.

00:42:48.128 --> 00:42:51.768
And then a lot of response from people being like, it's weird seeing your voice come out of a body.

00:42:51.768 --> 00:42:55.509
And I'm like, it's all I got, man.

00:42:55.777 --> 00:43:26.905
I hope this isn't like gotcha journalism, but I need an honest answer here because I have a very particular Sort of opinion on this and I'm just curious where you sort of land on the spectrum And I hope anyone that listens this response from David and myself this is not any type of indictment to not go follow the oblivion bar and off panel over on YouTube, but my opinion on Podcasting is that I prefer it audio first and I think that like the medium of podcasts or the I don't know if it's podcasting a medium I guess right Audio is just the tool for doing it.

00:43:26.905 --> 00:43:27.905
But I get what you're saying.

00:43:27.905 --> 00:43:35.253
Yeah, like I think it's as best when you're just listening to it via audio only, but I get like some people want to watch their podcasts, I guess.

00:43:35.253 --> 00:43:36.976
But I'm just curious.

00:43:36.976 --> 00:43:39.217
Was your sort of.

00:43:39.478 --> 00:43:41.300
How's a better way to describe this question?

00:43:41.300 --> 00:43:41.570
Yeah.

00:43:41.570 --> 00:43:44.184
Did you have any resistance to sort of converting all of this?

00:43:44.184 --> 00:43:49.240
uh resistance towards converting it to video?

00:43:50.161 --> 00:43:52.202
I did until I got laid off.

00:43:52.202 --> 00:43:54.684
Then I got real motivated, Chris.

00:43:55.364 --> 00:43:59.106
I mean, the thing is, my job was in digital.

00:43:59.106 --> 00:44:02.788
Here's the thing that I think is the real tool.

00:44:02.867 --> 00:44:07.130
I don't think that video is the medium still.

00:44:07.170 --> 00:44:11.804
I think that video is exceptional at promoting the audio.

00:44:11.804 --> 00:44:14.367
in this, cause like here's a real truth.

00:44:14.367 --> 00:44:16.967
My listenership has went up since I started doing video.

00:44:16.967 --> 00:44:30.275
It also coincided with uh a raise, I don't know, a growth in terms of my visibility because of the things that happened to me and because a lot of those posts kind of blew up and got shared by a lot of very notable people.

00:44:30.635 --> 00:44:32.516
And which I'm very thankful for.

00:44:32.516 --> 00:44:38.280
Again, I cannot thank the comics community enough for how kind they were to me in a very dark spot for myself.

00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:42.931
uh or what could have been an even darker spot.

00:44:42.931 --> 00:44:54.416
the thing is, that it's, think that video, like it's almost like when you do the clips on Instagram, it's like a trailer for something more.

00:44:54.416 --> 00:44:58.840
And like audio, it's not to say you couldn't just do it as audio.

00:44:58.840 --> 00:45:04.463
You could just do like a weird graphic with like waveforms going.

00:45:04.463 --> 00:45:06.143
And like, that's just not as interesting.

00:45:06.143 --> 00:45:12.960
And like part of it too is, like, podcasts are a people first, like medium, or whatever the hell we want to call it.

00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:14.780
Podcasts are a people first thing.

00:45:14.780 --> 00:45:23.940
And so putting a face to a name and making that happen builds that connection even further and could make the discoverability even higher.

00:45:24.340 --> 00:45:26.940
And I knew that the entire time.

00:45:26.940 --> 00:45:29.400
I just didn't want to do it because I didn't want to learn something new.

00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:30.501
It seemed hard, Chris.

00:45:30.501 --> 00:45:35.240
I didn't want to do it, which is why I got on River to Side with you and you taught me how to do it.

00:45:35.240 --> 00:45:35.699
So.

00:45:35.699 --> 00:45:39.059
Really, if anyone likes the video stuff, thank Chris, because it's all him.

00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:40.405
But, don't come to me for it.

00:45:40.405 --> 00:45:42.539
I helped David and that's it.

00:45:42.539 --> 00:45:44.105
No one else gets a free lesson.

00:45:44.105 --> 00:45:45.175
You can't ask for better.

00:45:45.175 --> 00:46:03.650
uh But no, it's it's it was was resistant to it because I was audio first and like audio only I wasn't even audio first and then uh with the video stuff though, I do get it like it's what's the fundamental like, okay, so do you know who Mina times is?

00:46:03.931 --> 00:46:08.306
I love me to times me to times is like uh ESPN anchors now.

00:46:08.306 --> 00:46:10.436
like, she's an amazing journalist.

00:46:10.436 --> 00:46:13.347
Like, she's a huge writing influence on me.

00:46:13.389 --> 00:46:23.443
And the thing about Mina is that, like, she has an interview, a chat with Ben Solak today on her podcast that went up.

00:46:23.443 --> 00:46:26.873
Ben Solak's an NFL writer for ESPN also.

00:46:26.873 --> 00:46:33.317
And when you click on the YouTube link, it's just her on a screen and him on a screen talking.

00:46:33.336 --> 00:46:35.708
What's the difference between that and first take?

00:46:36.297 --> 00:46:42.172
There's no difference between the podcast shows and their actual studio shows for the most part.

00:46:42.172 --> 00:46:45.445
It's typically a split screen of two people talking about the same thing.

00:46:45.445 --> 00:46:46.385
That's it.

00:46:46.385 --> 00:46:55.443
So part of it was realizing that as much as I was against it, there's really no difference between like video is not a lesser format.

00:46:55.443 --> 00:46:56.954
I never thought it was a lesser format.

00:46:56.954 --> 00:46:58.195
I was just a purist.

00:46:58.195 --> 00:47:11.514
And so I was resistant, but I got over it partially by necessity and partially also reframing my brain and real and and understanding the benefits that come with it and the fact that some people would like it more.

00:47:11.641 --> 00:47:21.121
Yeah, I think that's that was my exact hurdle was that like I prefer audio only podcast, but I am not the only one listening to a podcast, right?

00:47:21.121 --> 00:47:22.181
Like or what?

00:47:22.181 --> 00:47:22.422
Right.

00:47:22.422 --> 00:47:26.001
Like I'm not, I guess we should say like, I'm not the only one consuming a podcast.

00:47:26.001 --> 00:47:27.742
like some people have different preferences.

00:47:27.742 --> 00:47:30.561
Some people listen to it at 2.0 speed.

00:47:30.561 --> 00:47:32.981
Some people like, and that is psychotic.

00:47:32.981 --> 00:47:33.842
Don't do that.

00:47:33.842 --> 00:47:39.262
Also don't listen to it in like 0.5 because that's even weirder, but extra slow.

00:47:39.262 --> 00:47:39.922
You're like sound.

00:47:39.922 --> 00:47:40.577
Everyone sounds drunk.

00:47:40.577 --> 00:47:42.833
to go fast, but I don't understand wanting to go slow.

00:47:42.833 --> 00:47:44.849
That like turns into weird ASMR stuff.

00:47:44.849 --> 00:47:45.762
No, not into it.

00:47:45.762 --> 00:47:46.923
no, we're not gonna do that.

00:47:46.923 --> 00:47:50.864
Uh, but yeah, like some people prefer to, you know, watch their podcasts.

00:47:50.864 --> 00:47:51.594
I guess that's fine.

00:47:51.594 --> 00:47:58.688
But again, I'm like you, I'm sort of a purist in the sense that like, I think there is a certain amount of beauty with just like listening to two people talk.

00:47:58.688 --> 00:48:00.148
It almost feels like you're in the room with them.

00:48:00.148 --> 00:48:08.791
And like, for, think I've mentioned this, but like along with off panel, a show that I sort of the podcast that got me into podcast was the weekly planet.

00:48:08.791 --> 00:48:11.282
And for a long time, I had no idea what Mr.

00:48:11.282 --> 00:48:12.932
Sunday and Mason looked like.

00:48:12.932 --> 00:48:14.692
And now I do, because they do a lot more.

00:48:14.692 --> 00:48:30.661
video stuff, but like it where there was a sort of a like a certain amount of, um, attractive mystery to like that show and who those two people were and how successful, how like their, their bond was so tight and how they had this great ratatat on the show and, all those things.

00:48:30.661 --> 00:48:34.253
And they still have that of course, but now it's the, the mystery is sort of gone.

00:48:34.253 --> 00:48:34.713
I don't know.

00:48:34.713 --> 00:48:37.442
It's kind of, it's interesting.

00:48:38.094 --> 00:48:39.494
Yeah, exactly.

00:48:39.536 --> 00:48:40.945
I'm also like a big Daft Punk fan.

00:48:40.945 --> 00:48:43.217
So that's probably the reason why I love sort of the mystery of it all.

00:48:43.217 --> 00:48:43.927
Is that like.

00:48:43.927 --> 00:48:50.599
I know what Daft Punk looks like because I've looked it up, but the focus isn't their faces, it's the music, right?

00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:57.016
also talking about a medium that is mostly known for people that wear costumes that obscure their own identities.

00:48:57.016 --> 00:49:05.565
So like, is there a better fit than comics and podcasting to things that fundamentally are about obscuring uh identities?

00:49:05.565 --> 00:49:07.086
I don't know.

00:49:07.086 --> 00:49:08.108
It's pretty popular.

00:49:08.108 --> 00:49:09.978
So it seems like there's quite the overlap.

00:49:09.978 --> 00:49:10.577
Right.

00:49:10.577 --> 00:49:11.858
Well, hey, transitions.

00:49:11.858 --> 00:49:17.097
have them over here because I think we should probably talk about our upcoming panel at New York Comic Con in October.

00:49:17.097 --> 00:49:27.378
So for everyone that hasn't heard over on social media, David, myself, we've got the short box with the bottom Milligan and of course, Brad and Lisa from couple couples counseling will be joining.

00:49:27.378 --> 00:49:29.297
Uh, we'll all be together.

00:49:29.498 --> 00:49:37.378
Not we actually, we Matthew was going to be like, they suggested that we have Matthew Rosenberg on the panel and we all voted him off like survivor.

00:49:37.378 --> 00:49:39.226
Like we're like, you, sorry, you have to leave the island.

00:49:39.226 --> 00:49:40.061
tourist.

00:49:40.061 --> 00:49:40.391
No.

00:49:40.391 --> 00:49:41.831
no, no, we can't have that.

00:49:41.831 --> 00:49:51.282
Not to mention though, will say, uh, it's funny you say that Dave is that you actually voted his podcast to be your favorite podcast on your Eisner not so Eisner's topic.

00:49:52.485 --> 00:49:53.251
Well.

00:49:53.251 --> 00:49:58.891
and the funny thing is, is I actually have genuine questions as to whether or not he's actually done with it because he hasn't done it in a little while.

00:49:58.891 --> 00:50:07.391
And I'd be very curious if he's finally ended the run because Ethan and Griffin have been too focused on becoming successful comic creators.

00:50:08.891 --> 00:50:10.431
Yeah, anyways, sorry, aside.

00:50:10.431 --> 00:50:11.929
So we got the, we got the panel.

00:50:11.929 --> 00:50:14.190
yeah, we have the panel in October.

00:50:14.190 --> 00:50:20.193
And again, as I said, it's going to be David, myself, the short box, botter, and also Brad and Lisa from Call of the Couples Counseling.

00:50:20.193 --> 00:50:26.677
That will be on October 10th at 12 45 PM over in room 1 C 0 3.

00:50:26.677 --> 00:50:30.269
And this is going to be basically just a live crossover live recording.

00:50:30.269 --> 00:50:34.112
I said live twice there, a crossover event of all of our four shows together.

00:50:34.112 --> 00:50:41.922
So Something I found really interesting though is that you mentioned in your newsletter over on sketch that you haven't done a ton of panels in the past.

00:50:41.922 --> 00:50:46.427
uh I'm just curious, is this sort of a purposeful thing when you go to cons?

00:50:46.427 --> 00:50:55.956
Do you like prefer to use your time at a con to visit friends and publishers and creators and such, or like have you wanted to do panels in the past and just haven't found the opportunity?

00:50:55.956 --> 00:50:59.688
I mean, my podcast is called Off Panel, not On Panel, Chris.

00:50:59.688 --> 00:51:01.688
Jeez, it's in the name.

00:51:02.969 --> 00:51:04.130
No, no, I just thought of it.

00:51:04.130 --> 00:51:08.034
uh I have a really quick pitch for you, though.

00:51:08.034 --> 00:51:09.353
I do want to say really quick.

00:51:09.353 --> 00:51:11.775
I haven't told anybody else about this.

00:51:11.775 --> 00:51:21.505
I've always wanted to do a panel, if I did a panel, where we introduce people and they run in the room and high five people as they go up the thing.

00:51:21.505 --> 00:51:22.208
they're like.

00:51:22.208 --> 00:51:22.889
Can we do that?

00:51:22.889 --> 00:51:26.320
Can we get Bodder to introduce us and then we run up and high five the people there in the audience?

00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:27.436
I'm just saying.

00:51:27.436 --> 00:51:30.960
have like a Titan Tron and intro music and smoke and all the things.

00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:32.346
Like that's happening, yeah.

00:51:32.346 --> 00:51:38.449
Okay, so that ties into the real answer to your question, which is that I think panels are boring.

00:51:38.449 --> 00:51:42.704
um I've always thought panels are boring.

00:51:42.704 --> 00:51:48.137
The only panel, there's very few panels I've been to where I've been like, I love this.

00:51:48.318 --> 00:52:00.085
One was seen, I went to Emerald City Comic Con and I went to the John Bernthal panel and he literally laid on a couch with a microphone and just vibed for like an hour just talking about stuff.

00:52:00.085 --> 00:52:01.086
And it was awesome.

00:52:01.086 --> 00:52:03.489
It was just like a dude being a dude.

00:52:03.489 --> 00:52:05.018
And it was great.

00:52:05.019 --> 00:52:06.481
And I love that.

00:52:06.481 --> 00:52:08.503
Like it was just a great energy.

00:52:08.503 --> 00:52:09.903
He would have questions and answer.

00:52:09.903 --> 00:52:17.190
He would do some Q &A, but it was mostly just like complete, like, I don't know, just going with the flow.

00:52:17.190 --> 00:52:19.501
like that's going back to my podcast.

00:52:19.501 --> 00:52:26.387
It's like my whole thing is going with the flow and panels are like typically opposite of go with the flow.

00:52:26.387 --> 00:52:29.431
They're just like, you talk, you talk, you talk.

00:52:29.431 --> 00:52:31.851
then you talk and you talk, you talk, you talk.

00:52:32.010 --> 00:52:38.150
And I remember like all of the panels that stand out to me are the ones that are like the most purely chaotic.

00:52:38.190 --> 00:52:40.510
And I love the purely chaotic ones.

00:52:40.510 --> 00:52:50.286
Like I always said that if I was ever going to do my own panel at a con, one where I actually planned it, would be the, have you ever watched the Graham Norton show?

00:52:50.842 --> 00:52:52.097
uh clips and such.

00:52:52.097 --> 00:52:53.434
haven't seen a full episode, so yeah.

00:52:53.434 --> 00:53:27.003
Graham Norton show where I bring on the guests in sequence, but it's and it's just chaos It's not like I'm interviewing one person I'm interviewing all the people and then they interview each other and it's just nuts and like I would I would bring them onto stage one by one and it would not be that way I would just Graham Norton show it and I don't think I'd be able to serve alcohol like he does but that would be my goal and I just wanted to be like flow and so I guess that's my thing is is like I wish that panels were more like what I hope them to be rather than what they actually are.

00:53:27.003 --> 00:53:28.123
They just don't appeal to me.

00:53:28.123 --> 00:53:30.862
And so I've been asked to do a ton of them.

00:53:30.862 --> 00:53:39.822
The only one I said yes to in terms of hosting was 20th anniversary of Scott Pilgrim panel with Brian Lillio Malley, because it was a one-on-one interview.

00:53:39.822 --> 00:53:41.862
It was a really big thing to do.

00:53:41.862 --> 00:53:44.262
I love Scott Pilgrim and it was at San Diego Comic-Con.

00:53:44.262 --> 00:53:45.762
It's the only time I've ever been to San Diego Comic-Con.

00:53:45.762 --> 00:53:47.563
So that was the first panel I ever did.

00:53:47.563 --> 00:53:48.922
And it was a room of 750 people.

00:53:48.922 --> 00:53:50.663
And I was just like, this is fun.

00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:56.521
um In terms of being a guest on ones, I've only been on one as a guest.

00:53:56.521 --> 00:53:58.282
This will be my second one.

00:53:58.563 --> 00:54:01.403
And besides this one I did in Alaska and I don't count it.

00:54:01.403 --> 00:54:09.556
uh The one up in Alaska though, or the one in New York we're going to be doing will be like only the second time I've been on one as a guest.

00:54:09.556 --> 00:54:19.369
The other one was like a comics journalism one at New York Comic Con with Chris Aaron and Tiffany Babb and Heidi MacDonald and Austin English from the Comics Journal.

00:54:19.771 --> 00:54:20.510
And it was fine.

00:54:20.510 --> 00:54:21.572
It was fun.

00:54:21.572 --> 00:54:22.432
I enjoyed it.

00:54:22.432 --> 00:54:26.436
But at the same time, it did have a lot of the hallmarks of the ones that I didn't really enjoy.

00:54:26.436 --> 00:54:27.498
Bodder was there.

00:54:27.498 --> 00:54:29.050
I called on Bodder in the middle of it.

00:54:29.050 --> 00:54:30.260
Not in a Q &A set.

00:54:30.260 --> 00:54:32.182
I actually just gave him a shout out in the middle of it.

00:54:32.182 --> 00:54:39.844
uh But I just uh I want more vibes and I want less like your turn, my turn, if that makes sense.

00:54:39.844 --> 00:54:40.474
Sure.

00:54:40.474 --> 00:54:50.898
guess, well, let me, let me ask you this then all that being said, what was appealing about, cause I know we sort of pitched this idea to you to join, you know, couple of couples counseling short box and the oblivion bar.

00:54:50.898 --> 00:54:56.949
What was appealing at all about sort of joining all of us knuckleheads in New York here in a couple of months.

00:54:56.949 --> 00:54:58.056
I like you guys.

00:54:58.947 --> 00:54:59.887
Simple enough.

00:54:59.887 --> 00:55:00.666
I like it.

00:55:00.666 --> 00:55:01.757
that's a big part of it.

00:55:01.757 --> 00:55:11.994
also it's like, I mean, what is the big takeaway of Sketch 3.0, ah which is what I've dubbed my post-layoff life?

00:55:12.153 --> 00:55:14.594
Try new things, learn new things.

00:55:14.635 --> 00:55:25.681
I was just talking to a retailer about, for an article I'm doing for another publication, learning new things, you should never be a finished version of yourself.

00:55:25.681 --> 00:55:26.681
And if I...

00:55:28.724 --> 00:55:37.581
can't find a way to make panels work for me, that probably says as much about me as it does about panels, because so many people enjoy them.

00:55:37.581 --> 00:55:42.135
so try to find a way, like try it out, see if I can find a way that I enjoy it.

00:55:42.135 --> 00:55:45.956
And like, what better way to do it than with you four fine folks.

00:55:46.018 --> 00:55:46.659
Yeah.

00:55:46.659 --> 00:55:48.061
Well, I mean, it's, exciting.

00:55:48.061 --> 00:55:49.804
I, we've already done a panel.

00:55:49.804 --> 00:55:53.009
It'd be the short box, commonwealth counseling and the living bar.

00:55:53.009 --> 00:55:53.628
Yeah.

00:55:53.628 --> 00:55:55.472
Last year in New York and it was, was a ton of fun.

00:55:55.472 --> 00:56:02.206
And I have feeling we're to have just as much fun and to sort of speak on what you're saying there too, because we are pretty chaotic with our, with our panels.

00:56:02.206 --> 00:56:05.007
I am very chaotic, I have to forewarn you.

00:56:05.007 --> 00:56:06.887
I am like a chaos urchin.

00:56:06.887 --> 00:56:31.577
It's it's it's wild stuff It's gonna be it's gonna be a ton of fun But I will say to just sort of build off what you're saying a moment ago with like I guess sort of the idea of panels I've often viewed panels in the same way that I view like Funko pops whereas they like they're cool In theory like I see one I'm like, oh that I would love to have one of those like that'd be cool And then I have it like in my hands and I'm like, oh actually, this is kind of boring I don't I don't really want this anymore.

00:56:31.577 --> 00:56:34.706
Like I don't want this Batman who laughs Funko anymore.

00:56:34.706 --> 00:57:01.184
I thought it was cool when it was in the catalog, but now I don't want it anymore But I will say again to sort of build off what you're saying a moment ago The only panel that I've gone to and I've really really like that I haven't been a part of of course But like one that I've gone to purposely and enjoyed was actually just a couple weeks ago at San Diego Our friend Jim Vasquardi over image was hosting a panel with Brian K Vaughn who I know you know And I'm sure the listeners probably already know my all-time favorite writer in comics and I'm actually wearing my goo shirt right now.

00:57:01.184 --> 00:57:06.190
So clearly I'm a big fan, but Brian, I could listen to him read the back of a shampoo bottle.

00:57:06.190 --> 00:57:11.353
Like he is just endlessly funny and hilarious and he shows his underbelly all the time.

00:57:11.353 --> 00:57:19.034
And he's like, he knows how to like properly tease and like self-deprecate and not give up too much.

00:57:19.034 --> 00:57:27.117
He's like the perfect panelist and I aspire for us to have a very similar fun sort of environment with our panel here in a couple of weeks.

00:57:27.168 --> 00:57:35.085
I think one thing too though with like the Jim's one with Brian, which I think he's going to do another one in New York.

00:57:35.085 --> 00:57:40.878
I think the thing about those two though is they have an advantage of one-on-one is always gonna be easier.

00:57:40.878 --> 00:57:56.222
I actually don't like have multiple guests on my podcast for the same reason because there's always gonna be an inequity and there's always gonna be like a little bit of like stunted flow to any conversation that involves that many people that's designed to be.

00:57:56.525 --> 00:57:57.746
like that sort of thing.

00:57:57.746 --> 00:57:59.347
And so I think that that works really well.

00:57:59.347 --> 00:58:00.407
We're gonna crush it though.

00:58:00.407 --> 00:58:01.969
Everyone should come and we're gonna be amazing.

00:58:01.969 --> 00:58:04.621
Either that or you're gonna just see me be like embarrassing on a panel.

00:58:04.621 --> 00:58:06.592
So you win either way.

00:58:07.793 --> 00:58:12.748
I think we're all going to be equal parts fun and Maybe embarrassing a little bit too.

00:58:12.748 --> 00:58:13.097
Who knows?

00:58:13.097 --> 00:58:28.768
We'll see but okay, so I want to surround out our conversation here David with a fun sort of game I guess something that I knew that you specifically would enjoy and I think we would have fun with I'm sure most listeners know this especially on your end, but you love sports.

00:58:28.768 --> 00:58:29.869
I definitely love sports.

00:58:29.869 --> 00:58:31.721
You love comics I love comics.

00:58:31.721 --> 00:58:40.733
We both are podcasters all the things like we sort of have all that very much in common So I wanted to manufacture a game that involves pretty much all of that.

00:58:40.733 --> 00:58:51.702
I, and admittedly, I will say that like I was inspired by one of your recent, I guess you reposted a blog from, was it your sketchbook this past year from the 2024 sketchbook?

00:58:52.163 --> 00:58:52.563
Yes.

00:58:52.563 --> 00:58:52.853
Yeah.

00:58:52.853 --> 00:58:59.608
So you had this really awesome chapter where basically you compared, uh, was it comic creators to, or no, sorry.

00:58:59.608 --> 00:59:01.135
You, what tears.

00:59:01.135 --> 00:59:09.873
where if, uh well, the age of a tentacombo was a hypothetical situation where mutants became real and all wanted to join the NBA.

00:59:10.054 --> 00:59:16.239
I've also done other comps like that where like, you know, comparing this person to that, but yeah.

00:59:17.001 --> 00:59:23.713
and I did the comparison of players to the, the, who an NBA player comp for that mutant would be.

00:59:23.713 --> 00:59:25.416
Yeah, that's what I was thinking of.

00:59:25.416 --> 00:59:31.378
again, this is going be less of a comparison and more of just like a sort of, I guess, like fun.

00:59:31.378 --> 00:59:32.197
Yeah, exactly.

00:59:32.197 --> 00:59:33.490
We're going to catch some vibes really quick.

00:59:33.490 --> 00:59:41.806
We're going to just see, I'm going to basically what I'm going do is I'm going name off one of our peers, one of our favorite comic book podcasts that we all have already talked about probably in the show.

00:59:41.806 --> 00:59:48.952
And I want you to just sort of name the first NBA team or player that you think of that sort of relates to that show.

00:59:48.952 --> 00:59:57.969
And you can rationalize this however you want or You don't even have to like, could just say what comes to mind and we can just move on, but I want to give you, least give you that space to explain if you want to.

00:59:57.969 --> 01:00:09.362
And on the flip side, I'm going to do the same thing, but for NFL teams, because while I feel like I like basketball and I think you, you also know just as much about football, but I know football a lot more from than basketball.

01:00:09.362 --> 01:00:12.735
So that's how I'm going to kind of bring it into this conversation too.

01:00:12.735 --> 01:00:13.905
So, uh, if.

01:00:13.905 --> 01:00:14.248
secret.

01:00:14.248 --> 01:00:16.250
I know way more about sports than I do about comics.

01:00:16.250 --> 01:00:45.432
uh Here's the thing I for a long time I had a sports tattoo I had a sports tattoo way before I had a comic stat too So that should tell you everything you know about me ah and I guess I'm I should admit this live on the show I have a Raven shield on my back left shoulder of a die-hard Baltimore Ravens fan and have been so I was in middle school, so uh There's that yeah, they are cool now They weren't when I was a kid Kyle Buller was our quarterback So that should tell you everything you should know about that team, but I will say uh I was gonna see if there's any other prerequisites.

01:00:45.432 --> 01:00:48.958
don't, I'll see if you don't know the show, you can just skip it.

01:00:48.958 --> 01:00:50.219
Just say skip, we'll move on.

01:00:50.219 --> 01:00:53.443
So David, if you're ready, let's get into it.

01:00:53.443 --> 01:00:54.105
All right.

01:00:54.105 --> 01:01:01.034
So the first show is, we already talked about him, Bob Milligan over at the Short Box Podcast, a comic book talk show.

01:01:02.146 --> 01:01:02.909
Do you want to go first?

01:01:02.909 --> 01:01:04.275
Do you want me to go first?

01:01:04.378 --> 01:01:06.496
Let's have you go first with your NBA pick.

01:01:06.711 --> 01:01:34.192
I mean, the obvious, I do want to point out the NFL pick is extremely obvious and I hope you go the correct direction, but I'm going to go with, he's probably going to hate that I pick him, but Jimmy Butler, he's a NBA, he's a player that is currently on the Golden State Warriors, formerly of Botters Miami Heat, just because like he's very good at what he does and like he is simultaneously like seems really serious, but also is very jokey about it.

01:01:34.192 --> 01:01:54.414
And like, I don't know if you know this, but Jimmy Butler during the bubble in 2020 when they were playing the playoffs in Disney World in Orlando, Jimmy Butler opened a coffee shop called Big Head Coffee and sold incredibly expensive high-end coffee to his varying other NBA peers and everything.

01:01:54.414 --> 01:01:57.074
That seems like a very Bodder thing to do.

01:01:57.373 --> 01:02:02.755
Because Bodder's the type of person who's not just doing podcasts, but he's doing podcast movement and stuff like that.

01:02:02.755 --> 01:02:07.047
He's like always finding like really fun angles that are unexpected.

01:02:07.047 --> 01:02:15.550
The only thing I will say is that Jimmy Butler is probably not a good comp because I don't think that Bodder would ever go as dark side as Jimmy has at times.

01:02:15.550 --> 01:02:24.753
But at the same time, think if Jimmy, I think if Bodder ever did go dark side, I think he'd find a good way to market that dark side, which Jimmy never fails at.

01:02:24.753 --> 01:02:31.217
So uh partially for Miami, partially for personality, partially for the uh Miami Heat connection.

01:02:31.217 --> 01:02:32.336
So there you go.

01:02:32.579 --> 01:02:33.510
I think that's a good cop.

01:02:33.510 --> 01:02:39.559
And I think that, uh, Jimmy Butler is also someone that has been like criminally overlooked for a lot of his career too.

01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:44.565
Like everyone knows that he's good, but no one gives him the credit for how good he is and how long he's been doing it.

01:02:44.565 --> 01:02:47.670
Same as barter barter has been doing the short box since 2012.

01:02:47.670 --> 01:02:49.793
Like the dude has been doing it forever.

01:02:49.793 --> 01:02:51.003
And it just seems like.

01:02:51.003 --> 01:02:55.465
is one of the best interviews I've, like, going on his show was an absolute delight.

01:02:55.650 --> 01:02:56.090
Absolutely.

01:02:56.090 --> 01:02:56.451
Yeah.

01:02:56.451 --> 01:02:59.925
And he's one of my, you know, one of my best friends in comic like comic book podcasting.

01:02:59.925 --> 01:03:01.036
So I totally agree with that.

01:03:01.036 --> 01:03:04.222
Now let's see if I'm correct in my NFL comparison.

01:03:04.222 --> 01:03:07.445
I gave him the Los Angeles chargers.

01:03:07.445 --> 01:03:08.927
Was that what you're thinking?

01:03:09.309 --> 01:03:10.728
Were you thinking Duval?

01:03:10.728 --> 01:03:13.003
anybody besides Jacksonville Jaguars.

01:03:13.059 --> 01:03:19.565
The other thing is that Jacksonville is a terribly run organization that looks cool, but internally it's just broken.

01:03:19.936 --> 01:03:28.539
Yeah, I mean, at the same time, great vibes, great colors, ah had a very prominent feature in the Good Place.

01:03:28.539 --> 01:03:30.840
mean, there's a lot of pluses.

01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:34.822
And plus, like, everyone, like, here's the thing.

01:03:34.822 --> 01:03:37.682
Jacksonville, did they win the championship?

01:03:37.682 --> 01:03:38.483
No.

01:03:38.483 --> 01:03:41.063
But they all, like, people know who the Jaguars are.

01:03:41.063 --> 01:03:44.425
They like, they always remember, like, is it always for the right reasons?

01:03:44.425 --> 01:03:45.164
Maybe not.

01:03:45.164 --> 01:03:50.181
but it's still a good time and also the Duval, you know, anyways, yes, Rams go.

01:03:50.181 --> 01:03:52.202
They have that they will it's the Chargers here.

01:03:52.202 --> 01:03:53.313
That's the other LA team.

01:03:53.313 --> 01:04:20.052
But but yeah, know it's it's it was similar I think because I will say when I in my head and and you can tell me if you think differently when I think of the NFL and like the coolest team I always think of those powdered blues like the LA Chargers specifically, you know when we were younger was the San Diego Chargers but like I think of when I think of the Chargers I the first thing that comes in my mind is like that powdered blue and big powdered blue letters cool and I think that Every time I'm around Bodder, he is just like the coolest guy in the room.

01:04:20.052 --> 01:04:21.581
He knows a ton about hip hop.

01:04:21.581 --> 01:04:22.773
He knows a ton about comics.

01:04:22.773 --> 01:04:26.463
And I think, I'm sure people know this by listening to this.

01:04:26.463 --> 01:04:27.608
He knows a ton about podcasting.

01:04:27.608 --> 01:04:28.929
And I think that's one of his coolest features.

01:04:28.929 --> 01:04:30.679
So shout out to Bodder.

01:04:30.679 --> 01:04:32.902
Let's move on to, yeah, yeah, please.

01:04:32.902 --> 01:04:43.168
first time I ever met Bodder, I was at New York Comic Con and my wife and I were going up the escalator and uh I heard somebody behind me talking about like off panel and sketched and I was like, what's going on?

01:04:43.168 --> 01:04:55.038
I turned back and it's Bodder fake on the phone talking and he was just using that as a gateway to talk and then we ended up chatting for a while and it was just funny because it was just like a very cool and easy way to like bring it in.

01:04:55.038 --> 01:05:00.460
Also apparently he knew that saying things about my stuff would immediately draw my attention and he was right.

01:05:00.460 --> 01:05:01.891
Yeah, cool is the other side of the pillow.

01:05:01.891 --> 01:05:02.672
That's bottom hill again.

01:05:02.672 --> 01:05:05.353
If I, if I could ever describe him one way, that'd be it.

01:05:05.353 --> 01:05:05.771
All right.

01:05:05.771 --> 01:05:09.557
Speaking of cool though, we have our favorite couple in comic book, comic book podcasting.

01:05:09.557 --> 01:05:11.170
It's the comic book couples counseling.

01:05:11.170 --> 01:05:13.541
Uh, of course, Brad and Lisa Gullick's and our good friends.

01:05:13.541 --> 01:05:20.547
Uh, I guess I can give my NFL team first this time and I compare them to the Detroit lions.

01:05:20.597 --> 01:05:28.065
and the reason why that is is because I think that they are in a, on an incredible surge currently, uh, in terms of in our space.

01:05:28.065 --> 01:05:33.090
I don't think there are any higher risers in the comic book podcasting space than Brad and Lisa and their show.

01:05:33.090 --> 01:05:33.820
Rightfully so.

01:05:33.820 --> 01:05:36.932
Like they're hosting the Harvey's, they're interviewing Grant Morrison.

01:05:36.932 --> 01:05:44.639
They are just doing all they just went on a road trip and visited like, I think it was 12 or 13 possibly comic book shops on their way to San Diego Comic-Con.

01:05:44.639 --> 01:06:00.108
Like they are just constantly doing the coolest thing in our space and there's no stopping them because like you and like me, Brad will just, he is a, always seeking out that opportunity and they, and Lisa and I, I, I've told her this before and I stand by this.

01:06:00.269 --> 01:06:03.052
Lisa is the funniest podcaster in our space.

01:06:03.052 --> 01:06:07.657
She is the greatest color commentator in comic book podcasting, undoubtedly.

01:06:07.757 --> 01:06:20.735
When I was on their show and it'll be coming out and I think in September and I think it to some degree Brad did not know what to do with Lisa and I because we were just like so naturally glomming on to all the silliest possible angles and he was just like, I'm trying to do a serious thing right now.

01:06:20.735 --> 01:06:21.505
What are you guys doing?

01:06:21.505 --> 01:06:26.190
ah That's that is a great comp.

01:06:26.190 --> 01:06:29.472
I'm kind of debating between two California teams.

01:06:29.472 --> 01:06:43.775
ah I think I'm going to go with the Lakers just because the Los Angeles Lakers, some people might scoff at that, but like They're just so good at like being in the public.

01:06:43.775 --> 01:06:47.929
And it's like, you can't have the conversation about the NBA without talking about the Lakers.

01:06:47.929 --> 01:06:53.994
And like, you can't have a conversation about the world of comic podcasts right now without talking about Brad and Lisa and comic book couples counseling.

01:06:53.994 --> 01:07:01.260
Also the fact that they're uh led by two very notable people in Brad and Lisa and in LeBron James and Luca Doncic.

01:07:01.260 --> 01:07:06.400
uh So I think that there's some comps there and you know.

01:07:06.400 --> 01:07:13.304
The other one I was gonna go with was Golden State, I really, I was having a hard time with that, so I'm gonna go with the Lakers there.

01:07:13.463 --> 01:07:20.967
I was trying to go with, I was gonna go with Jeff Teague as a player comp, as a retired player, but I was just like, man, no one's gonna know who I'm talking about.

01:07:20.967 --> 01:07:23.492
And he's also a podcaster, so it's too obvious.

01:07:23.492 --> 01:07:25.583
You can get really inside baseball if you want here.

01:07:25.583 --> 01:07:26.463
It's totally fine.

01:07:26.463 --> 01:07:32.615
I'll at least I'll try to follow you along with this one, even if our listeners maybe maybe can or won't but There you go.

01:07:32.615 --> 01:07:32.925
All right.

01:07:32.925 --> 01:07:34.226
I like it.

01:07:34.226 --> 01:07:57.434
I will say that also to speak on your LA Lakers comp there I agree with you and also like incredible branding right like they have Jesse Lonergan doing their logo but also like just the idea of a couple talking about comics in I'm not gonna say a serious way, but like in a very intelligent inviting way is such a, like that is the best pitch for a podcast in our space.

01:07:57.434 --> 01:07:58.586
Like it doesn't get better than that.

01:07:58.586 --> 01:08:10.398
and here's another thing is, like the Lakers are also led by two players that I'm not, this is not me saying the same is true for Brad and Lisa, but we know so much about LeBron and we know so much about Luca.

01:08:10.398 --> 01:08:15.324
I Luca just had that Men's Health Magazine article that was about how he's shredded now.

01:08:15.324 --> 01:08:21.408
And so like, they're always in the public face, not just them as basketball players, but them as people.

01:08:21.408 --> 01:08:25.761
And like the thing is, is that's something that they're very good at is they foreground themselves.

01:08:25.761 --> 01:08:32.073
Like every episode starts with them talking rather than, you know, mine, you're like 30 seconds in before you hear the guest.

01:08:32.073 --> 01:08:37.996
And so it's just a dramatically different approach where it's host first in a lot of ways.

01:08:38.226 --> 01:08:39.148
Absolutely.

01:08:39.148 --> 01:08:43.484
All right, let's move on to I mean maybe the Godfather of comic book podcasting.

01:08:43.484 --> 01:08:48.027
We have word balloon with John Suntress Who is your NBA comp to John Suntress?

01:08:48.027 --> 01:08:48.528
my God.

01:08:48.528 --> 01:08:51.872
That is, you go with NFL first.

01:08:51.872 --> 01:08:53.555
I need a second for this one.

01:08:53.555 --> 01:08:58.439
I'm going to say, and this one was, think, maybe the toughest of all of these comparisons.

01:08:58.439 --> 01:09:00.240
I said the Minnesota Vikings.

01:09:00.471 --> 01:09:07.868
and the reason why I said Minnesota is because I think Minnesota for most of my life has been pretty consistently good.

01:09:07.868 --> 01:09:12.432
They've never really had like an extremely terrible year from what I can remember.

01:09:12.432 --> 01:09:20.502
Maybe they have, but like, at least in my brain and my, in my own sort of inner cannon, Minnesota has always been at least I would say like pretty good to very good.

01:09:20.502 --> 01:09:23.065
Even last year, they were one of the best teams in terms of record.

01:09:23.065 --> 01:09:27.248
So, uh, and I also think that Minnesota is one of the most storied franchises.

01:09:27.248 --> 01:09:29.301
one of the original AF, uh, AFL teams.

01:09:29.301 --> 01:09:33.965
So like he is one of those pillars within our, uh, you know, in our space.

01:09:33.965 --> 01:09:47.113
And I think that John, whether you've listened to one of his four hour long conversation with the Brian Michael Bendis or not, I will say that like, he is undoubtedly a large chapter in the, in the saga of come up with podcasting.

01:09:47.113 --> 01:09:55.631
as is Minnesota, even though Minnesota has never won a national champ or an NFL championship, they are still, I believe, one of the most storied franchises in the league.

01:09:55.631 --> 01:10:02.332
Yeah, my NBA pick is uh Minnesota Timberwolves point guard Mike Conley Jr.

01:10:02.332 --> 01:10:05.592
And the reason why, and from Indiana, yeah, that's right.

01:10:05.592 --> 01:10:09.444
uh Mike's been doing this for so long.

01:10:09.444 --> 01:10:11.755
Like he was a rookie the same year Kevin Durant was a rookie.

01:10:11.755 --> 01:10:14.555
He's like 38 or something like that.

01:10:14.555 --> 01:10:23.734
And the thing that's amazing about him is that he's always been solid and like he's just like, everyone likes him.

01:10:23.734 --> 01:10:24.574
Everyone likes him.

01:10:24.574 --> 01:10:26.176
uh here's a fun fact for you.

01:10:26.176 --> 01:10:30.179
ah He only has one technical foul in his entire career.

01:10:30.179 --> 01:10:33.032
And he only earned it like two years ago or something.

01:10:33.032 --> 01:10:36.144
And it was like this weird fact about Mike Conley.

01:10:36.144 --> 01:10:41.649
And it's just because he's just like, he's like the person you bring in when you just want good things to happen.

01:10:41.649 --> 01:10:44.310
And like, he like, he's the adult in the room.

01:10:44.310 --> 01:10:48.417
And John is like, reliable.

01:10:48.417 --> 01:11:01.484
He is the person that you need when you want something good to happen and it's who creators go to when they're just like, I'm gonna have a good conversation with somebody to talk about something that's really important to me and I can trust that.

01:11:01.484 --> 01:11:03.957
That's very Mike Conley of John Suntress.

01:11:04.734 --> 01:11:18.068
Yeah, John is very much like I think just sort of the the safety guard especially for like the older generation of combo book creators like there are certain creators that you just won't see on any other show besides word balloon and I think that's special I think that's worth protecting and I think we're celebrating as well.

01:11:18.068 --> 01:11:31.421
So Next one up we have comic pop Sal and co over on YouTube But also they have off the rack and other podcasts and such I guess I should give my did I give my NFL team first last time or did you okay?

01:11:31.894 --> 01:11:36.171
Okay So I told you before we start recording that I'm not ultra familiar with comic pop.

01:11:36.171 --> 01:11:43.904
I'm aware in the sense that most of the time when I see comic pop come up, it's they're like horde of fans just being like, they're the best.

01:11:43.904 --> 01:11:44.974
They're the best.

01:11:44.974 --> 01:11:53.856
It reminds me of uh in, I I had mentioned earlier, Zach Lowe, he is my, people ask me who's like my big influence and stuff like that for podcasting and for writing.

01:11:53.856 --> 01:11:55.136
Both answers are Zach Lowe.

01:11:55.136 --> 01:12:01.975
I love Zach Lowe and his, his, He has this term for Toronto Raptors fans.

01:12:01.975 --> 01:12:08.895
He calls them spooky molders because they are always like looking for like the weird conspiracy against their team.

01:12:08.895 --> 01:12:12.154
And that's not the case for Comic Pop.

01:12:12.154 --> 01:12:20.154
I don't think I don't think Sal's like, oh my God, like I have a conspiracy against my podcast or against, I don't know, Young Blood or something like that.

01:12:20.154 --> 01:12:25.534
But like their fans seem like ultra passionate to the point where they will come out of the woodwork for anything.

01:12:25.534 --> 01:12:30.081
So I'm going to say that Comic Pop is the Toronto Raptors.

01:12:30.104 --> 01:12:30.564
I like that.

01:12:30.564 --> 01:12:31.435
That's a great cop.

01:12:31.435 --> 01:12:31.666
Yeah.

01:12:31.666 --> 01:12:33.538
Toronto fans are pretty rabid.

01:12:33.538 --> 01:12:35.542
Like they, they stand for their team.

01:12:35.542 --> 01:12:36.351
Yeah.

01:12:37.072 --> 01:12:39.336
reached the mountaintop.

01:12:39.336 --> 01:12:42.988
And so, yeah, I mean, I think it's a totally reasonable fit.

01:12:42.988 --> 01:12:43.998
Absolutely.

01:12:43.998 --> 01:12:58.046
I'm gonna go with I would say a very similar comp to John over at word balloon with Comic pop because they are I think a staple in the sort of comic discourse Space right my comp for comic pop was the Pittsburgh Steelers.

01:12:58.046 --> 01:13:20.273
They are I think one of the most storied institutions both again with Pittsburgh and in the NFL I think again think of the steel curtain and just they've again very similar to Minnesota and my head cannon They are just always good, even when they're not good, even when they're like seven and five or whatever, however many games the NFL plays nowadays, they are even if they're like 700, they are still solids.

01:13:20.273 --> 01:13:23.506
They're like one of the best somewhere, whether it be like defense or whatever.

01:13:23.506 --> 01:13:23.775
So.

01:13:23.775 --> 01:13:29.810
Right.

01:13:29.810 --> 01:13:34.595
And then the same as like comic pop, they will find a way to make like, I don't know.

01:13:34.595 --> 01:13:37.530
I'm trying to think of like they'll try they'll they'll make.

01:13:37.530 --> 01:13:42.114
a conversation about Rob Liefeld recent Deadpool series, super interesting and engaging.

01:13:42.114 --> 01:13:43.815
Like they'll find a way to do that.

01:13:43.815 --> 01:13:49.240
So I just, have so much respect for Sal and Tiffany and the whole crew over there at Comic Pop.

01:13:49.240 --> 01:13:59.630
And as I've told you, David, many times, like part of my growth and part of the reason why I was so inspired to like do what I'm doing with Oblivion Bar with Aaron and I comes from my love of Comic Pop.

01:13:59.630 --> 01:14:01.729
Like they're definitely part of that.

01:14:01.729 --> 01:14:08.475
I do want to say you're very specifically talking about them as a franchise, not necessarily in the current Aaron Rodgers fueled era.

01:14:08.667 --> 01:14:09.426
OK.

01:14:09.426 --> 01:14:17.952
I'm not at any point comparing Aaron Rodgers and Sal to each other because that would be blasphemous and Sal, please don't take those words.

01:14:18.712 --> 01:14:19.774
I appreciate the clarity.

01:14:19.774 --> 01:14:20.664
Thank you very much, David.

01:14:20.664 --> 01:14:21.074
Thank you.

01:14:21.074 --> 01:14:22.975
uh Let's move on to again.

01:14:22.975 --> 01:14:29.720
This is another I think very, very much of a staple within I say comic podcasting and that's I fanboy.

01:14:30.501 --> 01:14:34.623
So for my NFL team, I picked the Denver Broncos.

01:14:34.963 --> 01:14:48.296
And part of that reason is, is that like again, I feel like I had a very similar sort of approach with these like these at least these last three word balloon comic pop and I fanboy and that is that like they have been so consistent Through their run.

01:14:48.296 --> 01:15:09.666
I mean and and I think that we can say this a lot about a lot of these folks but like specifically these three is that like they have been doing this for so long and their fan base is so dedicated that They they wouldn't have the listenership they have today if they weren't putting out an incredible product and I think again Very similar to the Denver Broncos a pretty good ran organization I mean, at times, right?

01:15:09.666 --> 01:15:11.586
They figure out ways to win, guess is the best way to put it.

01:15:11.586 --> 01:15:19.006
But like, I think at the end of the day, Denver Broncos, a story program, a story program, story franchise within NFL history.

01:15:19.006 --> 01:15:21.405
And, I thought, I thought that was the best comp.

01:15:21.405 --> 01:15:28.626
I almost said Baltimore Ravens with this one with I fan boy, but I don't know.

01:15:28.966 --> 01:15:29.426
Yeah.

01:15:29.426 --> 01:15:30.966
I, this is a spoiler for my list.

01:15:30.966 --> 01:15:32.586
I didn't give Baltimore to anybody.

01:15:32.586 --> 01:15:37.731
I just, I didn't want to do that because that would, that would assume favoritism and I didn't want to do that.

01:15:37.731 --> 01:15:40.672
anybody Indiana Pacers or Reggie Miller or whatever.

01:15:40.672 --> 01:15:42.153
I'm gonna go with New York Knicks for them.

01:15:42.153 --> 01:15:45.594
ah New York Knicks, been there forever.

01:15:45.594 --> 01:15:47.375
Their people stick with them forever.

01:15:47.375 --> 01:15:50.636
um They got, they have the name.

01:15:50.636 --> 01:16:01.537
uh I kind of feel like they've been around for so long that they've just like, it's like when you talk about the Knicks and you talk about uh Madison Square Garden, you know what they call Madison Square Garden?

01:16:01.878 --> 01:16:03.305
The Mecca of basketball.

01:16:03.305 --> 01:16:03.688
it?

01:16:03.688 --> 01:16:04.298
sure.

01:16:04.298 --> 01:16:06.399
like it is the holy spot.

01:16:06.399 --> 01:16:14.918
I went to a game in 2023 at Madison Square Garden preseason before New York Comic Con.

01:16:14.918 --> 01:16:26.838
And it's like it's a hell of an experience, even when you're there watching the Boston Celtics play their like seventh string center and whatnot during the preseason.

01:16:26.838 --> 01:16:30.756
And so like I think that's the thing about I Fanboy is it's just like.

01:16:30.756 --> 01:16:40.271
They're one of the first names you think of when you think of comics podcasting and it doesn't matter who's on the show and it doesn't matter what they're talking about or how they're doing or whatever.

01:16:40.271 --> 01:16:42.143
It's not a qualitative statement just like it.

01:16:42.143 --> 01:16:44.194
Well, it is what the Knicks Knicks suck.

01:16:44.194 --> 01:16:45.960
uh I'm just kidding.

01:16:45.960 --> 01:16:53.323
is a no Knicks fans podcast everybody just so we're all aware Right you're from Indiana and I'm Indiana Pacers fan.

01:16:53.323 --> 01:16:54.573
There's gonna be animosity there.

01:16:54.573 --> 01:16:58.185
uh But the actually like the Steelers less though.

01:16:58.185 --> 01:16:58.956
That's the funny thing.

01:16:58.956 --> 01:17:07.640
uh But yeah, the Knicks though, I mean, like they're just like charmingly charmingly forever.

01:17:07.640 --> 01:17:08.701
They're just always there.

01:17:08.701 --> 01:17:12.025
And that's I fanboy, a staple of the podcasting community.

01:17:12.025 --> 01:17:17.265
I think that that's a, the last two you've done a much better job of sort of comparing your team to my team.

01:17:17.265 --> 01:17:22.126
I'm unsurprised, but I will say that like, yeah, I think the Knicks is a great comparison there for sure.

01:17:22.405 --> 01:17:24.185
Okay, these next two should be pretty interesting.

01:17:24.185 --> 01:17:29.305
And we're gonna go to a show that I'm a big fan of and I think you may be as well.

01:17:29.305 --> 01:17:31.586
And that is a little show called Off Panel.

01:17:31.725 --> 01:17:35.786
What is your NBA comparison to Off Panel?

01:17:35.899 --> 01:17:48.828
uh Michael Jordan meets Reggie Miller meets uh Steve Nash meets uh the entire lifespan of the Boston Celtics.

01:17:48.828 --> 01:17:51.078
uh Let's see.

01:17:51.078 --> 01:17:56.087
um I'll let you go first after I get my sarcastic answer.

01:17:56.087 --> 01:17:58.926
sure, Mine is the Green Bay Packers.

01:17:58.926 --> 01:18:09.567
I will say that again, as I've mentioned before, and I'll stop doing this probably maybe after this or maybe one more time, but to butter you up a little bit, there's no Oblivion Bar without Off Panel.

01:18:09.567 --> 01:18:18.207
just, again, listening to your show, sort of, I wouldn't say growing up, I was in my 20s, but like, I guess growing up in like the comic discourse space, right?

01:18:18.207 --> 01:18:22.100
Like first becoming a Wednesday Warrior, I became very interested in...

01:18:22.100 --> 01:19:04.949
Creators behind the comics that I love and I think I can think of a very specific point in my life where I stopped following characters and started following Creators right like we all kind of I think at some point have that graduation where we stop reading Batman just because it's a Batman comic and we start reading Tom King's books because we followed him from Batman I guess like that's a comparison but like I will say that part of that curiosity came with discovering off panel and discovering these Conversations that you're having with creators and I thought It was just the coolest thing ever and it inspired me to want to do the same thing And to sort of compare that to Green Bay, which I think is maybe It's close between like Dallas and Pittsburgh is like the most storied program our most storied franchise Sure.

01:19:04.949 --> 01:19:17.213
Yeah, I mean Lambeau like there's everything about Green Bay says football and I think that like in a very similar ways like off-panel I think is a great poster child for comic book discourse, right?

01:19:17.213 --> 01:19:26.181
Green Bay has just they and I think maybe here's this is something I didn't have initially, but Green Bay is owned by their shareholders, right?

01:19:26.302 --> 01:19:26.842
Right.

01:19:26.842 --> 01:19:33.251
So an off panel, I think ever since everything that happened from you over the summer, there's definitely a comparison there for sure.

01:19:33.251 --> 01:19:36.573
So, yeah, I'm very confident in the Green Bay Packers comparison there.

01:19:36.573 --> 01:19:44.244
uh I have, if anyone that listens to this that I've ever talked basketball with is going to just be like, I hate you, David.

01:19:44.244 --> 01:19:46.175
I can't believe you're making this comparison.

01:19:46.314 --> 01:19:51.936
I'm making this comparison in a very specific way, not necessarily in the quality.

01:19:51.936 --> 01:20:04.880
It is partially, I think, maybe related to that, but Nikola Jokic, the Center for the Denver Nuggets, and the reason why is an unconventional approach to effective results.

01:20:04.880 --> 01:20:15.342
um I like Jokic, uh I perhaps don't have the ideal body for a comic book podcaster, but I still get the results.

01:20:15.342 --> 01:20:19.623
uh I still like playing with others.

01:20:19.623 --> 01:20:21.725
my game is fundamentally a team game.

01:20:21.725 --> 01:20:28.436
And like, that's the thing that makes Jokic special is not the fact that he is totally emphasizing I'm going to score 40 points.

01:20:28.436 --> 01:20:31.368
Although he can do that all the time, just like I can, I can get buckets.

01:20:31.368 --> 01:20:33.894
uh Straight cash homie.

01:20:33.894 --> 01:21:03.685
all about passing and it's all about like setting up your teammates for success and like I think that that's what makes Jokic really special and like I like to think that that's what I do like really well on my show and The last point I want to make is that and this is I'm not trying to say that anybody else isn't like this I think this partially ties into why I'm kind of bad at promoting what I do sometimes is like if Jokic wins the championship or if Jokic loses the championship that doesn't ruin his life.

01:21:03.685 --> 01:21:05.545
It doesn't ruin everything for him.

01:21:06.506 --> 01:21:15.591
I mean, when he won the championship and he found out that they had to do a parade and he had to stay there longer, he was upset, like on national television, because he just want to get back to his goddamn horses.

01:21:15.591 --> 01:21:17.474
And that's totally fine.

01:21:17.474 --> 01:21:25.658
And like, I think that like the thing is, is like, I, I have a very Ted Lasso approach to how I do things.

01:21:25.658 --> 01:21:26.529
Like there's the line.

01:21:26.529 --> 01:21:28.003
I don't have you watch Ted Lasso.

01:21:28.003 --> 01:21:28.268
Mm-hmm.

01:21:28.268 --> 01:21:28.855
Yeah.

01:21:28.855 --> 01:21:32.757
Okay, the fourth episode is my favorite episode from the first season of any of that.

01:21:32.757 --> 01:21:35.520
there's it's Trent Krimm from the independent.

01:21:35.541 --> 01:21:41.886
And he talks about he tells Trent Krimm that uh he doesn't care about wins and losses.

01:21:41.886 --> 01:21:43.726
I don't care about wins and losses.

01:21:43.726 --> 01:21:48.730
All I care about is achieving the result that I'm looking for in the process of doing it.

01:21:48.730 --> 01:21:53.173
I don't really care if it turns out great, as long as I feel like I gave it my best.

01:21:53.173 --> 01:21:54.675
And like, I think that's the same for Jokic.

01:21:54.675 --> 01:21:55.956
Like if Jokic.

01:21:56.024 --> 01:22:14.238
does his thing and then has to go back to his horse as a winner and if he has to go back as a loser he's fine with that and I think that that's a not a bad thing anyways so I'm Jokic multiple-time MVP baby I think the Yoke is just a comparison is great because much like again, his horses, he'll just go home to his horses no matter what.

01:22:14.238 --> 01:22:22.225
You will just know like when you're being, yeah, I'll say when you're being interviewed by David Harper, just know that regardless of how well that conversation goes could go terribly, could go great.

01:22:22.225 --> 01:22:25.417
He is going to leave that room and go play with his cats, you know.

01:22:25.417 --> 01:22:28.470
I'm actually gonna go upstairs and take them outside after this.

01:22:29.246 --> 01:22:36.047
All right last one here we don't have to spend a ton of time on this but now I'm just curious because I have an ego The oblivion bar a comic book podcast.

01:22:36.047 --> 01:22:38.309
What is your MBA comparison to?

01:22:38.788 --> 01:22:39.519
The oblivion bar.

01:22:39.519 --> 01:22:40.219
Okay.

01:22:40.219 --> 01:22:41.149
All right.

01:22:42.569 --> 01:23:32.537
See, here's the thing is I couldn't really find much very similar to how you sort of struggled and sort of spun your wheels to try to figure out the correct comparison for me, I chose the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as the team that I think best compares to oblivion bar and and i think the main reason i don't really have like a great in-depth reason for that outside the fact that i think the buccaneers have a great logo and so the so does the oblivion bar and also we have a ship in our in our stadium whatever it's kind of cool right uh i i will say that like tampa bay is often doing things in their own way they're there when tampa bay has won the championship in the nfl they're often doing things because they are approaching things from whatever however the through line is they're often going the opposite way and aren't afraid to sort of be like the bad boys of the league that year.

01:23:32.537 --> 01:23:44.537
think very specifically of like the John Gruden Superbowl year from the two thousands where like they had Brad Johnson as their quarterback who was like 34 and they had, know, uh, uh, spikes to keep it was a tequila spikes.

01:23:44.537 --> 01:23:47.318
And I'm trying to think of our Derek Brooks, Derek Brooks.

01:23:47.318 --> 01:23:49.078
was Derek Brooks who was there.

01:23:49.358 --> 01:23:49.837
Yeah.

01:23:49.837 --> 01:23:50.278
Yeah.

01:23:50.278 --> 01:23:50.658
Yeah.

01:23:50.658 --> 01:23:53.600
So like they had all these like misfits on their team.

01:23:53.600 --> 01:23:57.373
And they found a way to put it together and have maybe one of the greatest defenses of all time.

01:23:57.373 --> 01:24:08.622
And then, you know, very similar to the Tom Brady years where like, yeah, they brought Tom Brady in, like, they still had sort of a bit of an unconventional, crazy defense and crazy roster overall.

01:24:08.622 --> 01:24:12.686
anyway, I like Tampa, um, sort of a newer franchise, right?

01:24:12.686 --> 01:24:20.452
They, I mean, they were, came in the seventies, but like, they were sort of, when they first came to league, I got, now I'm spinning my wheels, but I'm trying to find better comparisons.

01:24:20.512 --> 01:24:24.439
When they first, when Tampa first, came into the NFL, they were looked at as like a joke.

01:24:24.701 --> 01:24:27.524
I don't think we were considered a joke, but like no one expected much.

01:24:27.524 --> 01:24:38.123
And I think we've sort of grown to a point where like we're very satisfied with our history and the things that we do on the show in a similar way as like Tampa doesn't really have anything to prove outside of just being an already successful franchise.

01:24:38.286 --> 01:24:41.019
and you're the Baker Mayfield of comic book podcasting.

01:24:42.341 --> 01:24:42.962
You know what?

01:24:42.962 --> 01:24:46.067
Former number one pick turns himself into a real player.

01:24:46.067 --> 01:24:50.573
I I saw somebody make a compelling case that he's supposed to be like a top five fantasy quarterback this year.

01:24:50.573 --> 01:24:52.646
We'll see about that, but great.

01:24:52.646 --> 01:25:04.836
is that like Baker is the and I think we could maybe say something about me You could you'd be the one to ask I guess in this conversation But Baker is the player that you hate playing against but you love having on your team uh I think he is now.

01:25:04.836 --> 01:25:12.020
I once had an episode called Baker Mayfield of Off Panel where we came up with comps for who he was in terms of...

01:25:12.140 --> 01:25:16.984
I think we did quarterback comps for either comic creators or comic characters.

01:25:16.984 --> 01:25:22.966
And I don't remember where I landed on that, but it was Brown's Baker Mayfield.

01:25:22.966 --> 01:25:26.350
wasn't like the more recent vintage.

01:25:26.350 --> 01:25:30.823
All right, I'm gonna go with my pick for you is not going to be somebody that...

01:25:30.823 --> 01:25:33.854
people necessarily recognize unless they watch this year's NBA finals.

01:25:33.854 --> 01:25:40.137
Jalen Williams, J-Dub, the number two guy on uh Oklahoma City.

01:25:40.137 --> 01:25:46.792
uh J-Dub is one of the most thoughtful, but he's like incredibly naturally gifted.

01:25:46.792 --> 01:25:49.768
Like he is a freak of nature.

01:25:49.768 --> 01:25:53.905
He is incredibly like good at everything he does.

01:25:53.905 --> 01:25:58.469
But I think the thing that differentiates him is the fact that he's very thoughtful about his approach.

01:25:58.469 --> 01:26:01.470
in like a way that you don't often get with a lot of NBA players.

01:26:01.470 --> 01:26:12.233
And that's something that's always really impressed me about you is the fact that like, I think you're good at this, but I also think that your approach is so thoughtful that it puts you in a position to succeed even when you don't got it that day.

01:26:12.233 --> 01:26:24.235
Just like J-Dub, who had torn apart like a tendon in his wrist and had to reteach himself how to shoot the basketball during the playoffs, during which they won the NBA finals and he scored 40 points in it.

01:26:24.235 --> 01:26:27.805
So yes, uh also great dude, great for vibes.

01:26:27.805 --> 01:26:31.479
um I think my pick's Jalen Williams.

01:26:31.479 --> 01:26:31.961
I love that.

01:26:31.961 --> 01:26:32.412
Yeah.

01:26:32.412 --> 01:26:34.278
The most dangerous layup in the league, think.

01:26:34.278 --> 01:26:38.063
The most unblockable layup of all time.

01:26:38.063 --> 01:26:40.695
he comes from such like wild angles.

01:26:40.695 --> 01:26:40.966
Right.

01:26:40.966 --> 01:26:41.487
Yeah.

01:26:41.487 --> 01:26:42.478
So I love that.

01:26:42.478 --> 01:26:42.837
Thank you.

01:26:42.837 --> 01:26:43.599
Thank you for the kind words.

01:26:43.599 --> 01:26:49.855
And also I love the comparison because there was not a more frustrating player to watch in the NBA finals than Williams.

01:26:49.855 --> 01:26:50.895
Like he was...

01:26:51.658 --> 01:26:52.265
Yeah.

01:26:52.265 --> 01:26:55.253
mean like Shay Gilder's Alexander is MVP for a reason.

01:26:55.253 --> 01:26:57.018
J-Dub is the reason why the Pacers lost.

01:26:57.018 --> 01:26:59.863
He was the straw that stirred their drink.

01:27:00.140 --> 01:27:00.649
Absolutely.

01:27:00.649 --> 01:27:01.470
Yeah.

01:27:01.470 --> 01:27:36.667
Well David I have kept you far longer than I originally asked I said about an hour and we're at 90 minutes So thank you so much for joining and I appreciate you also taking place in that weird Comparison game that I sort of just came up on the fly and it was totally a total a ton of fun So I'm gonna hand it off to you one last time before I let you go here And I will just say again as I said many times I'll just sort of briefly overview it one last time absolutely love what you're doing with off panel and sketch I'm so happy that you were able to just As soon as this terrible news happened during the summer, both with your heart and also with your job that you didn't let it sort of just like get you down immediately and you immediately.

01:27:36.787 --> 01:27:42.980
Reflexed into what I think you and I think you've even said this a more appetizing route, right?

01:27:42.980 --> 01:27:54.806
And I, um, I'm just, it's, really inspiring and, like you often are like, I think that's just the best way to say is that like, David, you're, you're a total inspiration to myself and a lot of our friends that we just mentioned a moment ago.

01:27:54.806 --> 01:28:06.622
And it's just such a pleasure not only to have you here today on the oblivion bar, but also to just be a friend, you know, like, uh, to have, uh, you at my disposal to bounce ideas off of and to have you here with this panel.

01:28:06.622 --> 01:28:09.662
And I'm glad we can like share help with each other with our shows.

01:28:09.662 --> 01:28:12.884
Cause there is a bit of a fraternity when it comes to comma podcasting.

01:28:12.884 --> 01:28:16.895
I think again, as a, and this last thing, this is last compliment you're getting from me, David.

01:28:16.895 --> 01:28:17.985
I think you're leading the pack.

01:28:17.985 --> 01:28:22.438
I think you are the one that we all sort of look up at and go, wow, if David's doing it like this.

01:28:22.583 --> 01:28:25.317
I think we can maybe do it in a slightly worse way.

01:28:25.317 --> 01:28:28.701
uh David, I'm gonna hand it off to you one last time.

01:28:28.701 --> 01:28:43.301
I do want to say really quick, I brought this up to you before and I don't even know if you really remember this moment, but at New York Comic Con, I want to say 2023, I had went up and talked to you and you were with Christian Ward and I mentioned the fact that I saw you guys were doing that panel and I was like, you guys didn't invite me.

01:28:43.301 --> 01:28:48.480
And you're like, you said something about the fact that we were on like a different level or something like that.

01:28:48.480 --> 01:28:51.060
And I think that that's doing all of yourselves a disservice.

01:28:51.060 --> 01:28:56.621
You guys are not, we're all on our own level and like we all could learn from one another.

01:28:56.621 --> 01:28:58.128
And I think that that is.

01:28:58.128 --> 01:29:01.890
why we get better at this is we're always learning and we're always getting better at what we do.

01:29:01.890 --> 01:29:02.751
And I, know what?

01:29:02.751 --> 01:29:07.012
I bet Nicole Jokic and Jalen Williams would make some sweet, sweet basketball music together.

01:29:07.012 --> 01:29:13.515
But uh I wouldn't, mean them versus the wizards, I don't know, man.

01:29:13.515 --> 01:29:17.896
uh So, uh okay, so now I'm supposed to talk about my stuff, right?

01:29:17.896 --> 01:29:28.845
So uh yeah, I mean, if you have liked what I had to say and you're interested in what I do, what I do is basically a lot of deep dives into super random subjects.

01:29:28.845 --> 01:29:38.038
Spoiler alerts for, this is an exclusive, I've not announced that I'm doing this, but one of my pieces I have coming up is the most me thing you possibly could hear.

01:29:38.038 --> 01:29:49.470
I'm doing a piece about the 60th anniversary of Stilt Man, which is this year, where I talk to a whole bunch of creators about why that character stands out and why those weirdo oddball characters are ones we love.

01:29:49.470 --> 01:29:57.550
I have a big piece about the League of Comic Geeks coming up and about how it's like quietly one of like the biggest powerhouses in comics without us realizing it.

01:29:58.229 --> 01:29:59.229
I got Brian K.

01:29:59.229 --> 01:30:00.149
Vaughn coming up.

01:30:00.149 --> 01:30:02.670
I have Oliver Sava with whatever.

01:30:02.949 --> 01:30:05.630
I have Oliver Sava with the Superhero State of the Union.

01:30:05.630 --> 01:30:10.189
I got Nick Dragata and David Brothers coming up on the podcast.

01:30:10.189 --> 01:30:17.550
If you'd like to subscribe to sketched and read my work and support the work that I do, it costs just like a comic a month basically.

01:30:17.550 --> 01:30:21.363
And sometimes it's like$2.99 on the annual plan.

01:30:21.363 --> 01:30:22.475
So it's really not too much.

01:30:22.475 --> 01:30:25.777
uh And you get a seven day free trial if you just want to check it out.

01:30:25.777 --> 01:30:30.639
uh But yeah, all of my day job is now working on sketching off panels.

01:30:30.639 --> 01:30:32.921
So your support means a lot.

01:30:32.921 --> 01:30:38.043
And then off panel has a Patreon that you can back at at patreon.com slash off panel.

01:30:38.043 --> 01:30:43.166
It's on all the podcasting platforms and you can listen or watch it on YouTube as well.

01:30:43.246 --> 01:30:44.886
And uh yeah, I don't know.

01:30:44.886 --> 01:30:47.149
I got a coffee if you want to buy me a coffee, whatever.

01:30:47.149 --> 01:30:57.001
uh I have some other stuff coming up which I can't really talk about, but uh I will be writing for some other publications that are of interest.

01:30:57.001 --> 01:31:03.485
uh I mean, you can subscribe to my local comic shop, Bosco's email newsletter to learn about the comics I recommend each week.

01:31:03.485 --> 01:31:07.710
And uh stay tuned for next year when I'm gonna do Sketchbook 2025 probably.

01:31:07.710 --> 01:31:13.134
Probably slightly modified because I'm gonna have to change the uh pricing element of it.

01:31:13.134 --> 01:31:16.273
and if you're gonna be in your Comic-Con and wanna say hey.

01:31:16.273 --> 01:31:19.492
Come say hey, I'll be walking around and I love saying hi to people.

01:31:19.492 --> 01:31:20.643
Yeah, and you'll have a panel.

01:31:20.643 --> 01:31:21.958
Come to the panel as well.

01:31:21.958 --> 01:31:22.581
come to the panel.

01:31:22.581 --> 01:31:24.217
Yeah, we're do awesome stuff.

01:31:24.217 --> 01:31:28.618
I have a three part finale sort of response to that.

01:31:28.618 --> 01:31:35.438
So firstly, I need sketchbooks 2022 and I think 20.

01:31:35.438 --> 01:31:37.085
Did you do 2020 as well?

01:31:37.085 --> 01:31:39.085
I've done 2019 to 2024.

01:31:39.085 --> 01:31:41.164
So you're missing 2019?

01:31:41.284 --> 01:31:45.784
Yeah, I mean, it's funny because like I had James Tynan be like, do you got any more 2021s?

01:31:45.784 --> 01:31:46.965
And I'm like, I don't know, man.

01:31:46.965 --> 01:31:48.265
Like maybe.

01:31:48.845 --> 01:31:53.685
But that was very nice little name drop by me, I'm sorry.

01:31:53.685 --> 01:31:57.545
But you know, it is funny though, because people have been buying them for years and somehow miss one.

01:31:57.545 --> 01:32:03.225
And so like it stands out because you look at it on the bookshelf and they're just like, where'd that one go?

01:32:03.284 --> 01:32:04.416
I'll look and see.

01:32:04.416 --> 01:32:05.557
Okay, perfect.

01:32:05.557 --> 01:32:12.969
Secondly, I will say I'm also a Patreon member of all panel well worth everybody if for some reason you need any more justification, highly recommend it.

01:32:12.969 --> 01:32:16.753
And then thirdly, um shoot, I had a third one.

01:32:18.480 --> 01:32:19.643
what editing's made for.

01:32:19.643 --> 01:32:20.363
yeah, exactly.

01:32:20.363 --> 01:32:25.689
oh And the third thing is you showed me a video recently with you and Chip about Stiltman.

01:32:25.689 --> 01:32:28.202
Is that part going to be included in this upcoming Stiltman?

01:32:28.202 --> 01:32:28.873
Okay, perfect.

01:32:28.873 --> 01:32:29.572
All right.

01:32:29.572 --> 01:32:31.576
fun fact, he's not the only one.

01:32:32.239 --> 01:32:32.645
Yeah.

01:32:32.645 --> 01:32:33.345
Okay, awesome.

01:32:33.345 --> 01:32:35.426
I'm not gonna spoil anything else besides that.

01:32:35.426 --> 01:32:41.586
just want, think it's a really cool sort of, right.

01:32:41.586 --> 01:32:44.886
It is the defining moment, I think, maybe, possibly.

01:32:44.945 --> 01:32:45.333
So.

01:32:45.333 --> 01:32:54.613
is a very wonderful thing and I'm sorry that we're speaking very abstractly about it but I don't want to spoil my own article and what I hope to be a video I share online.

01:32:54.613 --> 01:32:55.416
Absolutely.

01:32:55.416 --> 01:32:57.168
Well, David, thank you again so much.

01:32:57.168 --> 01:32:58.802
Can't wait for our panel in a couple of months.

01:32:58.802 --> 01:33:02.880
Thank you again for coming on to the show and we'll talk to you very, soon.

01:33:03.273 --> 01:33:04.443
See ya.