INTERVIEW: Anna Meyer

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This October, Oni Press and Spectrevision are proud to present High Strangeness, a startling new five-part experiment in comic book storytelling.

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Inspired by firsthand accounts of real paranormal encounters within the dimly lit borderlands of human experience, each 40-page prestige format chapter of High Strangeness will interrogate overlapping phenomena like UFOs, hauntings, cryptic sightings, and inexplicable synchronicities that together seem to indicate a higher unseen order of reality.

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Teaming Spectrevision co-founder and real-life experiencer Daniel Noah with an otherworldly cast of comic talents, including Christopher Cantwell, Cecil Castellucci, good friend of the show Christian Ward, and more, High Strangest Book One arrives on October 8th investigate a 1967 encounter with the strange beings known as the Men in Black, with superstar writer Chris Condon, Ringo Award-winning artist Dave Chisholm, and cover artist Jock.

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Look for High Strangers Book 1 on shelves October 8th at a local comic shop near you.

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Only from Oni Press.

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Hi, this is Anna Meyer, the comic book creator behind St.

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Catherine, and you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host, Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles.

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m Joining me today is the writer artist behind the 23rd Street original graphic novel, St.

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Catherine, which centers around a struggling young woman who, along with worrying about her work-life balance, family, and her relationships, also now has a real-life demon following her around as well.

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It is my pleasure to welcome Ana Meyer onto the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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you.

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Ana, wow.

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We were chatting about this a little bit before the actual conversation.

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So happy to have you here.

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And as I'm finishing up...

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this beautiful piece of work here, which I firmly believe in this is I'm not just saying this because you're right here in front of me.

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I think this is one of the best books of 2025 thus far as I'm finishing it up and my partner Olivia, who was right next to me as I was finishing it up, can contest to this.

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I had to reach out to you immediately.

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I basically, you know, sent you a message, I think on Instagram and was like, Hey, would you be interested in coming onto my silly little comic book podcast to talk about St.

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Catherine?

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And you know, to your credit, you immediately It seems like very instantly you were like, yeah, I'd love to come on some, you know, at some point.

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So, so great to finally have you here to talk about this book.

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I'm so excited to be here and that's so sweet to hear that, yeah, it's amazing.

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Have you been getting a lot of that recently?

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you been like the beat or, you know, folks like that who like comics, journalism, and that's not what we do here, by the way, on the Abilene bar.

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Like we are totally just fans who love comics that love to talk to, you know, talented folks like yourself.

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But like, have you had like journalism folks and people in the industry reach out to you to talk about this book more frequently?

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People telling me it's the greatest book of 2025.

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Yeah, right.

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Every day.

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No.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I've been really, it's been really incredible.

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I think the response to the book I've done, I know the beat did feature on it when it first came out, which was great.

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And I did an interview with Ollie from the beat during Comic-Con, which was really great.

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And so, yeah, there's definitely been some attention on it, which um as a debut artist and author.

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It's really incredible.

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So yeah, I've just been trying to like enjoy it so good all in.

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And I'm very, yeah, I feel very blessed to have it as well.

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That's awesome.

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Yeah.

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Well, yeah, I think that's probably a great place to start too, because my first question kind of centers around having the listener get to know you a little bit as again, as you just said, this is your debut work with 23rd street, which is, don't know if people know this or not.

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23rd street is sort of the adult imprint of first second.

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And my gosh, I mean, first second has been doing such incredible work here recently.

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And they continued on with again, 23rd street and all the new books with that.

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But we'll get to that here in just a moment with 23rd street.

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I want to focus on you for a moment on a Let's get to know you a little bit in terms like your background.

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I know you've done some design graphic design work, but what ultimately pulled you in the direction of telling stories sequentially with comics?

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Yeah, I mean, it started just being, well, when I was like really little, I think I always had stories in my head and I was just a very imaginative kid and my mom really facilitated art with me and my siblings and I almost felt like my love of drawing came from the need to.

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had these stories and characters in my head and like imaginary friends and I just wanted to see them on the page.

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And then so I felt like comics just really naturally happened for me.

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And I just, when I would go to the library to found the section and just fell in love with the medium.

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And so I'd always been cooking up ideas in my head and just doodling comics in high school.

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I had like a really bad webcomic I posted on DeviantArt and I would always like, once I found webcomics I really gravitated towards those and I was always trying to make my own webcomic.

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But as webcomic artists know, it's really hard to balance that a lot of times and there's so many webcomics that have just kind of fallen into the ether and mine were a part of that.

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uh But it was always a goal of mine to make a fully finished comic.

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But professionally, I went into graphic design because you go, that's the practical thing to do.

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And truly, honestly, uh I'm actually...

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I actually have loved my design career and I'm very grateful for it because I feel like that stability allowed me to really sit down and take the time to work on St.

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Catherine, which I started that as a webcomic, I think back in 2018, and was posting that on Webtoon and working on that.

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And then I had an editor from For Second reach out to me and asked me to pitch it and then, you know, the rest is history and it's now a book.

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So.

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That's kind of my, like, my comic and graphic novel journey.

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Sure.

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And I love to hear that you said that like your entry point into, uh I guess storytelling, but you know, just like art in general too was comics because my sort of fun uh origin story to reading and loving, you know, art is comics as well.

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My librarian when I was in middle school bought me my first comic, which was like, uh I don't know you remember those Marvel essentials, this black and white large trades from back in the day.

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uh She bought me a Avengers.

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essential book and the kind of the rest of history is actually sitting in the library behind me here.

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And it, I was just curious, like, did you have someone like that in your life as well?

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Did you sort of stumble upon comics through like maybe a Scholastics book fair, or did you have someone like, like Mrs.

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Souter was my librarian at the time.

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Did you have someone like a Mrs.

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Souter in your life as a young person that got you into comics?

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I can't really think of a particular person.

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It really was just going to the library.

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I'm one of five kids and my mom loved taking us to the library.

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We were constantly there and a lot of my siblings were all pretty big readers.

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I we just loved going to the library.

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And I'll never forget the library in my small town was, was like two shelf, it was low and it was pretty small.

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There weren't a ton, but it was enough as soon as I found it, just like things clicked.

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was reading chapter books and prose stuff, then once I saw these comics and seen characters and stories that were like really exciting to me like superheroes and just seeing like I don't know women doing like cool stuff was really exciting to me from the story standpoint and so yeah that was I think it's just like going to the library constantly and picking through there it wasn't a huge you know collection but it was enough to really send out my love and then like finding it online when I wanted to read more comics so yeah that's why I kind of fell in love.

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with them.

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Yeah, it's interesting.

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I hope this isn't too invasive, but were you kind of were you kind of nerdy, like as a young person?

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Because I was, that's why I'm asking.

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I was in like comics were like sort of the greatest power fantasy in any medium, right?

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So like, found that like superheroes, you mentioned like superheroes immediately caught your attention for me as a young nerdy kid, like in Indiana, I'm a Midwestern kid just like you, you know, like what better sort of, again, power fantasy is there than you know, like Marvel superheroes, right?

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Yeah, I think like I, and I don't know how much, maybe just through the media that I watch, but I had this dream when I was like little of being a secret agent, because for me, I'm like, that's the coolest thing you could be is like a secret agent, right?

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Like in the 90s, like of course.

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And so then like seeing that type of story.

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So I don't know, I think I always gravitated towards like the sort of fighting and the nerdy stuff.

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So yeah, I definitely was a nerd growing up.

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found, when the book was coming out and when I was going to Comic-Con, that was like such a dream of mine when I was in like grade school and high school was to go to Comic-Con.

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And uh I asked my dad to like send me some like old photos and I found photos of like my child, teenage bedroom.

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And it's so funny because it's, I've got, uh and this ties into St.

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Catherine, there's like a painting of like the mother Mary and then there's like a daredevil post right next to it.

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It's like the duality of my upbringing.

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Sorry.

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I love that.

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Yeah.

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I'm also wearing a daredevil That was, that was my, well, I loved, I loved Daredevil because I loved seeing, and I remember I watched the Ben Affleck movie and that's what really like cemented it.

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And then I went and like, I got to go to the comic section and like find more of these stories.

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And I loved like the Catholicism in it.

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I always joke that like Daredevil started my love of like a sad protagonist being sad in a beautiful church.

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That's just like.

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I think on the static that I love and Daredevil I would say is the origin of that for sure.

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Sure.

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I mean, that totally makes sense.

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If you've read, I mean, I'm sure most folks listening to this have at least dabbled in the Frank Miller, know, Daredevil stuff from the eighties and nineties.

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And it is all that.

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Like that.

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think that if nothing, that is sort of the central pillar of those, you know, that, that era of Daredevil was sort of his grip with morality and, you know, sort of fighting between his, you know, religion and the things that he was out at night doing and, and all these things.

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So I totally get that.

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And, you mentioned your trip to San Diego and how that was sort of a dream for you.

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I love to sort of maybe noodle on that idea a little bit longer because I don't know if the listeners know this.

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You know, again, St.

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Catherine was part of this initial launch for 23rd Street through First Second.

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Again, this is sort of their more adult, you know, adult.

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I say that in quotations because I think First Second has done adult books before, right?

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But this is sort of like their more focused adult imprint.

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And St.

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Catherine was part of that.

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you know, I didn't have the chance to get to see you there at San Diego Comic Con.

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know, Aaron and I, my co-hosts, we were there.

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But as most people are, San Diego is a busy time for all of us.

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But from what I could see from you your trip that you posted online and such, seemed like it was very, very exciting, probably really busy.

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And I know this is kind of a broad sort of simple question, but how was that for San Diego Comic-Con for you?

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Yeah, I mean it was amazing.

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It was a dream come true.

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It definitely felt a little bit like a dream I had kind of forgotten about because it like that was in the sense that like I mean, I'd never truly forgotten about it, but it was something that I wanted to go to so bad when I was in grade school and high school because I just loved the Marvel comics and that's what I was really into.

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And then I think as I got a little older, I kind of got more into indie comics and I was reading more graphic novels and I was a little more in that world and I wasn't paying attention to the more Marvel DC Comic Con world of comics.

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The big two as they call it sometimes.

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Right, the big two for sure.

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And then it was like when all the stuff started to ramp up with St.

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Catherine and I started to realize like, oh, I'm going to be able to start maybe going to stuff.

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went, I was like, oh my gosh, like, am I going to be able to go to Comic-Con?

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I didn't even think, like, I was like, that wouldn't happen, no, would it?

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And then when it did, it was just this really like...

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It was amazing.

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It was such a dream country.

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I was so excited.

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And yeah, it cool.

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It was my first time in California too.

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Like I'd never been to...

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Yeah.

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And I know I felt like such a job.

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Like it's my first time in California.

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I felt like I like, you know, just like stepped off the bus from the Midwest or whatever.

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But like it was really special.

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I think everyone there was really sweet.

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I mean, I just love, I love cartoonists.

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I love, I don't know, which they're just like such good people and...

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So it was definitely overwhelming.

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It was very busy and you know, which I was very overstimulated by that for sure.

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But like, I loved the panels.

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uh I loved going to panels.

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I loved like being on the panels.

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It really fun.

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And yeah, it was awesome.

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You know, I could tell you so for a young person again, to sort of speak on our similarity, because I think we're relatively the same age.

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I would I would imagine San Diego.

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Gosh, is that just not like a beacon?

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This like magical place that I never thought I would get to go to.

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And this year, 2025 was my sixth year in a row going to San Diego.

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You know what adult money can spend on it is on it's going to San Diego, right?

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Like that's what you can do.

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So and you're so right.

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It is just like this.

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amazing place.

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I tell people this all the time.

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San Diego is by far my favorite convention.

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know, go to San Diego, I go to New York, and I usually pick like one other one to go to each year.

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San Diego is like just so far and away the best comic con and every new year is like my new favorite con of all time.

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So I'm so happy that you got to experience that.

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And you you mentioned the hustle and bustle of it all.

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New York is way crazier, by the way, if you get a chance to go to New York in October, it is so insane.

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I think I'm doing, I'm doing like a signing there, so I'll pop in there briefly.

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I mean, I live in Brooklyn, so it's much easier for, can just hop on over there.

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I'm, I'm excited for that as well, but yeah.

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Yeah, and also, I just go back to San Diego really quickly.

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I mean, you were on like the backdrop of First Second.

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Is that correct?

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I think I maybe saw that online.

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Yeah, they had like a giant printout of St.

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Catherine, which was wild.

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It uh was like so big.

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when I, the first night I was in, the people from 23rd-C are like, we have to show you something.

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And they showed me that and it was so cool.

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Again, it's just one of those like really surreal moments.

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How do you, maybe this is a big question, so I apologize, but how do you contextualize that?

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Right?

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Like I think if you talk and we talked to a lot of great creators here on the show of all varying successes and all the things.

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Something I'm always so curious about is like when they feel like when the creator themselves feels like they've quote unquote made it.

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And that's not what I'm asking you here, but just like.

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when you experience something like that with, again, doing the panel and seeing this creation of yours as like a central pillar of first, second and 23rd street at the biggest Comic-Con all year.

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This is an opening for you to brag about yourself, by the way, if you want to.

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like, how do you in your own brain, like, what is your reaction to that?

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How do you contextualize that in your own brain?

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Like your creation is up there among everybody, you know?

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I mean, it's a really weird out of body experience.

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And I think it happened, and very quickly, it can feel kind of normal.

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You're like, oh, this is normal.

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And then you have these moments where you think back to yourself just a couple years ago, two years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago, and you go, whoa, this is not normal.

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This is really special.

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This is really cool.

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So yeah, I feel like I just try to drink it in, and I try to really enjoy it.

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I always try to remind myself like what it's really easy I think in this industry what I've as someone who's very new to it is like I do feel like they're always throwing like they're always dangling like little carrots in front of you and there's always a goal post that's being moved it's like well yeah you got to go to comic-con but like did you do this and did you do that and what about this thing and I feel like I always try to remind myself I'm like I want to make comics and I love telling stories and I love being able to put those stories out there.

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So I kind of always try to remind myself like that truly is the coolest thing and the best gift.

00:17:10.107 --> 00:17:29.910
And I think about during this process of making this book leading up to, you know, even right now, today in this moment, the times that were just the most fun and joyous for me like really were when I was making this comic, like in the throes of it and watching it come to life, like through all the stages of the comic making process.

00:17:29.910 --> 00:17:35.198
Like, yeah, like to me, that's just the most, I don't know, the most exciting thing for sure.

00:17:35.198 --> 00:17:43.246
I mean, the other stuff is incredible and amazing too, but yeah, I try not to lose sight of like what I love is being able to make these stories.

00:17:43.665 --> 00:17:46.106
They always say that like the artist.

00:17:46.248 --> 00:17:51.471
Well, I mean, this doesn't really make sense in your particular situation because you are both the writer and the artist.

00:17:51.471 --> 00:17:59.434
But like a lot of times you have the writer who is usually upfront talking about the book, you know, pitching the book, doing a lot of the marketing of the book.

00:17:59.434 --> 00:18:09.700
And then the artist is generally just like behind their Jack Kirby cigar stained art table, just drawing like they're doing panels as the writers out promoting the book.

00:18:09.700 --> 00:18:12.907
But for you in this sense, you know, again, as you said, you released it.

00:18:12.907 --> 00:18:15.719
via Webtoons and then eventually through 23rd Street.

00:18:15.719 --> 00:18:19.000
So, you know, it's one of those things where it was sort of a finished thing.

00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:34.346
And this was a question I had originally, but it just sort of sparked within me as I was speaking words was from the very beginning of this, when you first started promoting it on Webtoons and releasing it there, how much changed from the beginning, like with this story with Catherine herself?

00:18:34.346 --> 00:18:38.307
And this is, guess, sort of my loose transition into talking about the story a little bit.

00:18:38.307 --> 00:18:42.731
And I want to stay relatively spoiler free because I want folks to read this book for themselves.

00:18:42.731 --> 00:18:52.682
But like how much change for you from the beginning moments, you're setting out your thumbnails and you're writing your script to what I'm holding in my hand right now.

00:18:52.682 --> 00:18:55.635
This finished book that I can I said was one of the best of the year.

00:18:55.777 --> 00:18:59.180
You can put that you can put that on uh on a website somewhere if you want.

00:18:59.180 --> 00:18:59.500
Right.

00:18:59.500 --> 00:19:00.121
Oblivion bars.

00:19:00.121 --> 00:19:01.221
Best of the year.

00:19:01.863 --> 00:19:04.905
How much really changed for you throughout that entire process?

00:19:04.973 --> 00:19:18.614
Oh yeah, mean, there definitely a lot of details have changed and I think that, you know, I think the overall like story beats for the most part are kind of similar.

00:19:18.614 --> 00:19:26.574
I think with this story and with a lot of my stories, a lot of times I go in with a very clear idea of what my beginning, middle and end is.

00:19:26.574 --> 00:19:32.713
And a lot of times it's like the in-between and the details that really change over time.

00:19:32.713 --> 00:19:34.973
So the overall structure.

00:19:35.346 --> 00:19:37.307
what I was planning for the webcomic.

00:19:37.307 --> 00:19:41.170
And when I was doing this webcomic, uh I maybe did half of it.

00:19:41.170 --> 00:19:46.292
And then at the halfway point, I stopped it to work on it as a full graphic novel.

00:19:46.292 --> 00:19:49.895
uh But the overall structure was pretty much the same.

00:19:49.895 --> 00:19:57.759
But I will say like what I decided to focus on changed, very like general and overarching.

00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:06.261
I think when I first started writing the story, It was really a lot about the religious aspect and it was a lot about the relationship between Katherine and her mother.

00:20:06.261 --> 00:20:08.221
That was kind of like the heart of it.

00:20:08.221 --> 00:20:15.241
I mean like, oh, like this, you know, my mom doesn't understand me or she wants this for me, but like, you know, this character wants something else.

00:20:15.362 --> 00:20:17.682
And that was what it kind of started off with.

00:20:17.682 --> 00:20:28.761
And I think over time, I really grew to love the characters and I really grew to love Katherine's friend group and like, and her boyfriend and sort of her circle and her life.

00:20:28.971 --> 00:20:33.204
I wanted to make it about so much more than just the mother daughter relationship.

00:20:33.204 --> 00:20:41.318
I wanted it to be about the friends and just like, I think the incredible experience of, you know, being human and having friends.

00:20:41.318 --> 00:20:44.961
So I think that's like the thematic change that has really happened.

00:20:44.961 --> 00:20:48.532
But the religious stuff and the mother stuff is definitely still there.

00:20:48.593 --> 00:20:53.395
But I think it's a little more rounded in its final form.

00:20:53.936 --> 00:20:55.617
And then there's like little details.

00:20:55.617 --> 00:21:06.067
There was, uh The one detail I always like to bring up from the webcomic is originally in the webcomic when she got possessed by a legion of demons, her eyes like turned yellow.

00:21:06.067 --> 00:21:08.480
That was like part of the webcomic.

00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:21.486
And I decided to take that out because, you know, as you know, with graphic novels and with comics, you have to be like really strategic about your timing because just every scene is a lot of drawing that you have to do.

00:21:21.486 --> 00:21:29.546
And you think about it and you're like, well, if, like my eyes turn yellow, every person who knows me, if I interact with them, I would have to like explain to them and have you do some thing.

00:21:29.546 --> 00:21:32.346
And I went, I just don't know if that's a good use of time.

00:21:32.346 --> 00:21:35.246
And so I removed that.

00:21:35.246 --> 00:21:36.865
so those are like some of the things.

00:21:36.865 --> 00:21:44.374
Ode to Routine themes changed a little bit and also like those little details just to make it a cleaner story.

00:21:44.374 --> 00:21:54.679
Uh-huh and sort of sticking with that same idea and you know something I find really special about this book is that and also I would say even you know you as a creator as well is that when I think about st.

00:21:54.679 --> 00:22:14.507
Catharine of course as you said there's that religious aspect and of course the mother-daughter sort of relationship as well and I definitely want to talk about that I've heard you talk about this sort of maybe having to I don't know safeguard the relationship between Kath and her mother and your relationship with your mother and having to like prove to her that this isn't exactly how you felt as a young person.

00:22:14.507 --> 00:22:18.888
But what I found, think maybe even more interesting was just sort of like the coming of age, right?

00:22:18.888 --> 00:22:34.806
Like sort of the idea that like this young girl, she has friends, as you said, she's got family members in her life that she's sort of, she has all these relationships in her life that she's trying to sort of morph with as she gets older and how like those relationships change.

00:22:34.806 --> 00:22:37.468
very quickly or, you know, over time.

00:22:37.468 --> 00:22:50.996
this again, I guess I don't really have like a very great way of asking this question, but I'm just curious to hear you talk about sort of the balance between, you know, the autobiography part of this and then also sort of the allegory of religion and all the things.

00:22:50.996 --> 00:22:51.506
Yeah.

00:22:51.506 --> 00:22:59.960
And you know, it definitely is a fully fictional story, uh you know, for a lot of reasons, but I put a lot of my own truth in that.

00:22:59.960 --> 00:23:05.532
And there's a lot of my own experience with growing up in a very religious uh environment.

00:23:05.532 --> 00:23:08.634
I grew up very, uh very Catholic.

00:23:08.634 --> 00:23:16.938
And like I always joke that me and my siblings were like the Catholic kids in our Catholic grade school and high school.

00:23:16.938 --> 00:23:21.359
And so I put a lot of my own experience with that.

00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:29.026
And there are a lot of similarities between the mother-daughter relationship and my own relationship with my mother.

00:23:29.026 --> 00:23:31.727
But there's also a lot of differences, I would say.

00:23:31.727 --> 00:23:39.992
I always say my mom is much cooler and weirder and funnier in the best way than um the mother in this book.

00:23:39.992 --> 00:23:41.334
But I think that's what...

00:23:41.334 --> 00:23:45.276
You kind of start with an inspiration that comes maybe from your own life and your own truth.

00:23:45.276 --> 00:23:51.240
But I do believe at a certain point you have to focus on the story and those characters.

00:23:51.240 --> 00:24:25.821
and seeing where that story is going and you know if it does start to reflect your own life that's naturally gonna happen but also like what makes sense to for that character but also like what makes an interesting story you know and what makes something entertaining so I think that's how I try to balance it uh make it feel true but also make it serve the story as well You know, it's interesting earlier you talked about how you are one of five siblings and in your home and like my favorite, I don't know if this is offensive and I hope it's not, but like every time I hear someone say they have that many siblings, my first question is always Catholic question mark.

00:24:27.123 --> 00:24:28.963
Because usually that's that's the case.

00:24:28.963 --> 00:24:33.596
Usually if you have more than like four siblings, more than likely there's some kind of Catholicism in there somewhere.

00:24:33.596 --> 00:24:35.268
But you know, it's interesting.

00:24:35.268 --> 00:24:38.253
You know, I actually really loved the relationship between.

00:24:38.253 --> 00:24:42.136
well, at least where the relationship ends between Catherine and her mother in this story.

00:24:42.136 --> 00:24:47.192
And I can say, and I don't mean to like put myself in this story because I think what you have created with St.

00:24:47.192 --> 00:24:50.825
Catherine is much more interesting than what sort of my relationship is to religion.

00:24:50.825 --> 00:25:06.630
But like as a young person growing up in the Midwest, I can sort of attest to this idea that I think you're sort of trying to illustrate is that, you know, as a young person, and again, I'm in Indiana, you are sort of brought up with this idea that like your football coach is also the pastor and like everyone's going to youth group.

00:25:06.630 --> 00:25:18.929
And you almost feel like, and again, I guess I'll sort of expose my underbelly because something I really appreciate about you as a creator and the story is that it seems like you were also exposing your underbelly in a way.

00:25:18.929 --> 00:25:21.980
that like, I'm not religious at all.

00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:24.202
uh Agnostic is probably the best way to describe it.

00:25:24.202 --> 00:25:25.133
I honestly don't really know.

00:25:25.133 --> 00:25:34.108
I haven't put that much thought into it because that's sort of my approach to religion is that thus far in my life, I think, and I hope that I've been a pretty good person without it.

00:25:34.486 --> 00:25:47.653
As a young person, I struggle with that because you have all these folks around you, people that you think are smart and moral and good and kind, all these things, they're all telling you they believe in this thing wholeheartedly without even really questioning it, right?

00:25:47.653 --> 00:25:49.913
Or at least not outwardly questioning it.

00:25:50.015 --> 00:26:01.381
And I never really connected like through again, youth groups and all the things I always felt sort of on the outside looking in not just not be able to connect the dots on this.

00:26:01.381 --> 00:26:05.067
And I'm saying like religion and big white balloon letters in front of my face, you know?

00:26:05.067 --> 00:26:18.317
em And then it was like probably around the time where I graduated high school and sort of left home and went to the military that I sort of just stopped trying and sort of just came to grips with the idea that this is something that I didn't fully believe.

00:26:18.499 --> 00:26:26.635
And I guess I'll tie this exposing of my underbelly into a question with you is can you think back to a particular point in your life where that you sort of had that same epiphany?

00:26:26.635 --> 00:26:31.826
Because you mentioned at the end of this book and sort of the afterword that like you are no longer Catholic.

00:26:31.826 --> 00:26:35.228
and maybe as agnostic as sort of the way you would describe it as well.

00:26:35.228 --> 00:26:37.058
And maybe you can correct me if that's changed since then.

00:26:37.058 --> 00:26:44.874
But do you remember a particular time in your life where you sort of realized that Catholicism really wasn't something you wanted to continue on with?

00:26:44.958 --> 00:26:56.022
Yeah, I think, you know, from a narrative and storytelling, it's like, you'd love to say there was like this epiphany moment and this like, instance that happened that's so clear.

00:26:56.022 --> 00:27:00.484
It's like, that's when I realized like, it wasn't working for me, or I'm not part of this anymore.

00:27:00.484 --> 00:27:05.968
But really, it just, it happened very gradually and very slowly over a long period of time.

00:27:05.968 --> 00:27:12.641
uh It started for me in high school, because I was like, I was a theater kid, I was really into theater.

00:27:12.641 --> 00:27:36.541
And it starts with you surround yourself by people who are queer and gay and it doesn't align with the religion and you kind of go, oh okay well you know like I don't agree with that but like I'll still subscribe to everything else and then just like slowly it's sort of you do that with like lots of other different things until one day you realize like I don't know if this is really me anymore.

00:27:36.541 --> 00:27:40.178
um And so I think it happened really gradually.

00:27:40.178 --> 00:27:49.617
I did have a moment where I first, and I talk about this a little bit in the afterword, but to give more details, like I did, like I didn't miss Mass.

00:27:49.617 --> 00:27:53.817
So one of the things in the story is Catherine doesn't miss Mass for like 25 years.

00:27:53.817 --> 00:27:57.178
And the first time she misses it, she gets possessed by Legion demons.

00:27:57.178 --> 00:27:58.698
And that was me.

00:27:58.698 --> 00:28:01.178
Like I just had always gone.

00:28:01.178 --> 00:28:06.538
And it was actually, I was on a trip to New York City with a friend.

00:28:06.670 --> 00:28:10.232
And this was like, we didn't have smartphones and it was Sunday.

00:28:10.232 --> 00:28:13.655
my mom was literally like texting us like, make sure you go to church.

00:28:13.655 --> 00:28:20.662
And we had looked up a church previously and we left like where we were staying and we were trying to find it and we couldn't find the church.

00:28:20.662 --> 00:28:22.333
And my friend was like, yeah, let's just not go.

00:28:22.333 --> 00:28:26.546
And I was like, yeah, we could just not go.

00:28:27.950 --> 00:28:30.250
It wasn't, it just kind of, went, huh.

00:28:30.250 --> 00:28:32.160
And then I, and then it dawned on me.

00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:35.233
I'm like, my gosh, this is going to be the first time I've ever not gone.

00:28:35.847 --> 00:28:37.219
Sunday mass.

00:28:37.219 --> 00:28:40.201
so, so yeah.

00:28:40.201 --> 00:28:46.517
And I think, again, like very gradually, it's just like every day you kind of think about that upbringing.

00:28:46.517 --> 00:28:57.895
And I think more what it became was every day slowly realizing how much, even if I don't subscribe to that religion anymore, it does affect the way that I think and it does affect my thought patterns.

00:28:57.895 --> 00:29:09.058
I could get very woo-woo about stuff and very like there's this cosmic balance of I do a bad thing, therefore like something of equal or maybe even greater depending on what I've done previously will happen.

00:29:09.058 --> 00:29:13.153
And if I do a good thing, you know, therefore a very karma mindset.

00:29:13.153 --> 00:29:18.328
And I think that's definitely a relic of upbringing.

00:29:18.328 --> 00:29:23.733
So yeah, it's been, you know, just every day unpacking that.

00:29:24.521 --> 00:29:30.384
And you mentioned in the afterword too, I know we keep referring to that because I'm trying to, again, stay away from like serious story points here.

00:29:30.384 --> 00:29:32.326
um I guess a two-parter.

00:29:32.326 --> 00:29:35.586
Number one, I know you mentioned in the, in the afterword that morality is not a currency.

00:29:35.586 --> 00:29:41.059
I don't know if that's like a saying within Catholicism or not, but I, I really love what you said there as well.

00:29:41.059 --> 00:29:43.971
Like, I think I sort of eventually morphed my idea.

00:29:43.971 --> 00:29:49.983
Cause again, growing up in like a small Midwestern fly over town, you almost have like the seeds of religion.

00:29:49.983 --> 00:29:57.497
imprinted on you in a way where like your, your sense of morality is like almost unquestionably tied to some form of religion.

00:29:57.817 --> 00:30:10.942
When you start to separate yourself from that, I think karma is like the natural progression for some folks that like you start to think that like you can only do good or you can only get good things if you like put good things back into the world and sort of that process.

00:30:10.942 --> 00:30:17.624
But I feel like as I've gotten older, okay, let me reframe the question, but I'm going to reframe it here a little bit.

00:30:17.624 --> 00:30:18.284
When you think of St.

00:30:18.284 --> 00:30:23.196
Catherine and you think, cause I don't think this book is like telling people not to be Catholic, you know?

00:30:23.814 --> 00:30:30.232
I think it's safe to say that like it's not trying to say that, like say you're a young person and you pick up St.

00:30:30.232 --> 00:30:34.664
Catherine from, you know, a library or from a bookstore or what have you.

00:30:35.787 --> 00:30:38.057
I hate to ask you like, what do you want them to take from this?

00:30:38.057 --> 00:30:46.263
But like when you think of, you know, the young Anna and they, and she reads this book here, is there something that you hope they get from this?

00:30:46.263 --> 00:30:50.559
Like, Again, I hate asking the author, like, what did you mean when you wrote this kind of thing?

00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:54.623
like, this thing is saying a lot of great things and I think it's there's a lot of important things.

00:30:54.623 --> 00:30:58.445
like, is there anything in particular for you that you really hope gets across with St.

00:30:58.445 --> 00:30:59.135
Catherine?

00:30:59.135 --> 00:31:04.618
Yeah, well, the one thing is like, don't like it's like, don't be afraid of hell.

00:31:04.618 --> 00:31:06.378
Don't be afraid of going to hell.

00:31:06.378 --> 00:31:11.132
And that's something it sounds so like sometimes it's like, that's like so stupid.

00:31:11.132 --> 00:31:21.246
like when I I had this realization, there was like one time I just became I was just like laying awake in bed and I was anxious and I was thinking about all the bad things I had done.

00:31:21.246 --> 00:31:23.126
And it was so scary for me.

00:31:23.126 --> 00:31:25.837
And I sort of realized, why is this like so scary?

00:31:25.837 --> 00:31:27.429
Obviously, like I want to be a good person.

00:31:27.429 --> 00:31:29.299
Everyone should try to be a good person.

00:31:29.299 --> 00:31:35.884
But I realized, I'm like, I'm still very afraid of burning in hell for all eternity, even though I don't believe that.

00:31:35.884 --> 00:31:44.451
So I think giving for people that do have that, um that fear, sort of trying to relieve them of that.

00:31:44.451 --> 00:31:51.297
I think the more general thing, because I know that's not something that everyone experiences, and I'm very jealous of people that don't have that.

00:31:51.297 --> 00:31:53.198
um But.

00:31:53.344 --> 00:31:57.175
You know, obviously, like I'm talking about like, does it mean to be a good person and morality?

00:31:57.175 --> 00:31:58.526
But I don't have the answers.

00:31:58.526 --> 00:32:01.297
You're not going to pick up this book and get that answer.

00:32:01.297 --> 00:32:10.260
It's more I just feel like I want to show, like, be wary of anyone or anything that is telling you they have all the answers.

00:32:10.260 --> 00:32:12.748
em And that can be religion.

00:32:12.748 --> 00:32:17.804
lot of times it is religion, but it can also be like a workout routine or hustle culture.

00:32:17.804 --> 00:32:22.210
It can be some sort of ideology or even like a self help.

00:32:22.210 --> 00:32:23.171
book or something.

00:32:23.171 --> 00:32:34.417
think we love the idea of like, you follow all these steps and you'll be happy, you'll always do the right thing and that's just not how things work.

00:32:34.417 --> 00:32:36.949
You have to take every day like one at a time.

00:32:36.949 --> 00:32:38.770
So that's war.

00:32:38.770 --> 00:32:47.756
Be wary of anyone that says they have all the answers and like the beauty and amazingness that it is to have friends and people that care and understand you.

00:32:48.009 --> 00:32:49.691
Life is more nuanced than that, isn't it?

00:32:49.691 --> 00:32:50.020
Right?

00:32:50.020 --> 00:32:59.452
Like you can't just sort of follow a checklist or if we're talking in today's terms, you know, go to chat GPT and look up top 10 ways to be moral.

00:32:59.472 --> 00:33:01.073
that doesn't exist.

00:33:02.354 --> 00:33:03.473
Do not do that, please.

00:33:03.473 --> 00:33:14.057
uh You know, and you know, to speak on sort of the friendship aspect of this, we sort of become a bit of a product of our environment in a way.

00:33:14.057 --> 00:33:14.576
Right.

00:33:14.576 --> 00:33:23.453
You know, especially as young people were almost like Etch A Sketch is that sort of are shaken every day and, and the people we, we do become like a version of the people around us.

00:33:23.453 --> 00:33:38.342
I think that's important for young people to remember, you know, having young siblings myself, I think it's always important that you remind, I try to remind my younger siblings that like they, you got to surround yourself with people that you, that you find value in, that you feel cared for.

00:33:38.342 --> 00:33:44.506
Again, as someone who's not religious, I think I've made that pretty clear thus far is that like religion has perks, right?

00:33:44.506 --> 00:33:45.422
Community.

00:33:45.422 --> 00:33:48.865
um Like it has things that it can do really well.

00:33:48.865 --> 00:33:59.542
But again, I agree with you 100 % is that the moment that you have someone sort of threatening you with eternal damnation, if you don't do these six things plus hate gay people, I don't know.

00:33:59.542 --> 00:34:01.224
I just don't know if I can necessarily get behind that.

00:34:01.224 --> 00:34:04.396
That just seems a little morally gray for me even.

00:34:04.396 --> 00:34:11.663
And I think that's why I connected with this book so much again, as a as a white Midwestern straight man.

00:34:11.782 --> 00:34:15.373
I know I'm not exactly the demographic I feel maybe intentionally.

00:34:15.373 --> 00:34:18.353
made for this book, but I think that's why it's so special.

00:34:18.353 --> 00:34:28.592
Why I was able to read it and go, Oh, I remember what it's like to be a young person and make mistakes and know well, and initially think, Oh my God, this is the, this is the end.

00:34:28.592 --> 00:34:31.152
I'm, definitely going to hell for this one, you know?

00:34:31.152 --> 00:34:47.869
But then as you, as you get older, start to realize that like, honestly, there are some lessons you can't even learn without making like a grave mistake, like maybe hooking up with someone or skipping out on work or that's obviously two very different things, like there are mistakes to be made, guess is my.

00:34:47.918 --> 00:35:00.458
Yeah, and you know, I think another thing with this book is I really wanted to explore like, what do you do when you like, do really like mess up and you do something that's bad?

00:35:00.458 --> 00:35:05.697
Because you know, we all have those moments where we do mess up and we were not a good person.

00:35:05.697 --> 00:35:15.157
And I think a route I could have taken this like religious story is I think about like, I could have maybe had Catherine do something that is not aligned with the church.

00:35:15.157 --> 00:35:21.652
And she kind of comes to this realization, like she feels a lot of guilt for something that she did that doesn't align with Catholicism.

00:35:21.652 --> 00:35:26.512
But I didn't want the answer at the end of the book to be like, well, that's actually, it's good.

00:35:26.512 --> 00:35:27.192
It's okay.

00:35:27.192 --> 00:35:41.590
Like, let's say if I, like, maybe it was like an abortion or maybe, um, like, um, having premarital sex, like something that's very like a sin in religion, but not really, at least I don't, you know, I don't believe it, not really out in the world.

00:35:41.590 --> 00:35:50.945
in the secular world, I wanted her to do something that was like bad because it's like as adults, like what do we do when we need to atone for things?

00:35:50.945 --> 00:35:54.336
know, like how do we answer for the times when we messed up?

00:35:54.336 --> 00:36:00.701
And you don't need to feel terribly guilty about it, but also like, you know, sometimes there are consequences for your actions.

00:36:00.701 --> 00:36:09.186
And that was just like, that was interesting to me, especially when I'm exploring like what does morality look like post religion.

00:36:09.449 --> 00:36:10.411
It's interesting.

00:36:10.411 --> 00:36:13.632
have sort of this belief and this isn't got you journalism.

00:36:13.632 --> 00:36:21.755
I hope not at least, but I'm of the belief that like religion held a very, very important part of our civilization as humans at a certain point.

00:36:21.755 --> 00:36:29.422
And then it just sort of very gradually morphed into this thing that And I mean this respectfully to everybody who's maybe listening to this who is religious.

00:36:29.422 --> 00:36:33.001
hope that none of this conversation, what I'm about to say is offensive in any way.

00:36:33.001 --> 00:36:37.382
This is sort of my own dumb thoughts going into a microphone in front of a very talented person.

00:36:37.382 --> 00:36:46.362
But I'm a firm believer that like organized religion, at least in like the sense that we know it today will slowly fade as our civilization continues to grow.

00:36:46.362 --> 00:36:51.041
And that like the way we needed it, we won't need it any longer.

00:36:51.041 --> 00:36:59.342
I feel like we're already sort of seeing the seeds of that with like, and I know that like we're like very much in the infantile stage of our being, right?

00:36:59.342 --> 00:37:05.782
But like 200, 300 years from now, I don't know if we're going to have like organized religion the same way that we do now.

00:37:05.782 --> 00:37:10.481
There'll obviously be a little sex of that, like, it'll, it'll very drastically change.

00:37:10.481 --> 00:37:22.039
And I think that that is sort of a testament to the idea that like morality is something that is within and that's something that like we choose that religion helped with, but no longer, we don't know, we no longer need it, right?

00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:30.753
think that yes, the way that religion has been historically and the organized religion, I definitely do think that is changing and we're seeing the fall of it.

00:37:30.753 --> 00:37:41.878
But I really think that there is something so innate in humans to have some higher being or have some outside thing that's saying this is the way to do it.

00:37:41.878 --> 00:37:51.983
And again, I just see this pipeline in my own life of people who are raised religious where they leave religion, but then they go to astrology or they go to tarot cards.

00:37:51.983 --> 00:37:53.684
and things like that, which I also do.

00:37:53.684 --> 00:38:00.385
I'm also like, yeah, I don't believe in Catholicism, but also I'm going to pull a tarot card.

00:38:00.385 --> 00:38:03.885
And so uh yeah, it is interesting.

00:38:04.806 --> 00:38:14.039
there might come a time, and we might not know what that is going to look like years from now, thousands of years from now.

00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:21.579
But yeah, I think there's something so innately human about wanting that cosmic force of somewhat to just like...

00:38:21.614 --> 00:38:28.353
telling me that third party to like tell me I'm on the right track or I'm on the wrong track or what do I do?

00:38:28.454 --> 00:38:37.313
And a lot of times like they're there and that's the thing is like, I don't know if that exists, but people are always, you know, gonna try to find it.

00:38:37.313 --> 00:38:39.114
I don't mean to get too heady here.

00:38:39.114 --> 00:38:43.617
And I apologize if I'm trapping you in an answer here, but like, I think it's I think it's dying.

00:38:43.617 --> 00:38:44.487
Like I think it's death.

00:38:44.487 --> 00:38:48.920
We're all worried that like at the end of this, it's just black, right?

00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:54.032
At least like, I don't know, but I think that's sort of my relationship to religion too is that I don't know.

00:38:54.032 --> 00:38:57.793
Ana, I think you're really smart and talented, but like, I don't think you know.

00:38:57.793 --> 00:39:00.085
I don't know.

00:39:00.085 --> 00:39:01.780
don't think anybody knows.

00:39:01.780 --> 00:39:05.675
thinking about it I thought it was gonna burn in hell so like I don't know.

00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:19.202
But I think that's that's sort of the cattle, or at least at the catalyst for maybe a large portion of folks is that like they they really firmly want to believe that like it's better to believe in something than to believe than to believe that than to believe the more realistic thing.

00:39:19.202 --> 00:39:21.054
Maybe I don't know, I don't know.

00:39:21.054 --> 00:39:22.364
Maybe that isn't the more realistic thing.

00:39:22.364 --> 00:39:25.655
Maybe there is someone in the in the clouds welcoming us, perhaps.

00:39:25.655 --> 00:39:27.277
But I don't know.

00:39:27.277 --> 00:40:12.155
the thing is like we don't know but I think again like what we don't know but what I tried to focus on in this story is it's like I can't answer any of that stuff I feel like none of us can answer this but like what I do know is I love love humans and I love this earth and I feel like so much of religion is telling us like yeah it's great here but like it's gonna be so much better and it's like well why don't we celebrate like what is beautiful here So I really tried to focus on the small moments and lifting up the little details in life that I just find to be really sweet, whether that's how a friend acts when they're feeling really stressed out or even just how someone keeps their room.

00:40:12.155 --> 00:40:15.996
I don't know, the books that someone reads.

00:40:15.996 --> 00:40:20.813
It's just those little things I try to focus on in this story to sort of...

00:40:20.813 --> 00:40:29.246
know, juxtapose against like these big cosmic questions that at a certain point we go, I don't know, does it matter that much to know?

00:40:29.246 --> 00:40:30.746
Yeah, exactly.

00:40:30.827 --> 00:40:38.849
know, to sort of speak of what you're saying there, too, like it's those we've already sort of spoken on the mistakes in life, but like those small mistakes are OK.

00:40:38.849 --> 00:40:41.139
And it's OK to make mistakes, big or small.

00:40:41.139 --> 00:40:45.391
Like, I think it's more important to again, as you said, how do you adjust to that?

00:40:45.391 --> 00:40:46.251
How do you correct?

00:40:46.251 --> 00:40:48.972
Like if you do make this grave mistake, how do you correct it?

00:40:48.972 --> 00:40:50.492
Or what do you learn from it?

00:40:50.492 --> 00:40:54.943
You know, all those things I think are more beneficial.

00:40:55.085 --> 00:41:01.706
to who we eventually become rather than like worrying about the ramifications of our afterlife and whether we're going to end up in hell or heaven.

00:41:02.505 --> 00:41:03.726
yeah.

00:41:03.726 --> 00:41:04.905
Well, let me ask you this.

00:41:04.905 --> 00:41:06.945
Just sort of, just sort of move on from St.

00:41:06.945 --> 00:41:07.206
Catherine here.

00:41:07.206 --> 00:41:07.885
I'm just curious.

00:41:07.885 --> 00:41:14.610
I heard you sort of tease the idea that you might be working on something new and it's going to possibly be at 23rd street.

00:41:14.610 --> 00:41:16.550
So that is it.

00:41:16.550 --> 00:41:19.773
That's still well, so I am working on something new.

00:41:19.972 --> 00:41:23.485
It's it's currently I'm like, I like never know.

00:41:23.485 --> 00:41:25.155
what?

00:41:25.155 --> 00:41:26.710
I've heard I've already said it.

00:41:26.710 --> 00:41:27.677
I've already said it on the beat.

00:41:27.677 --> 00:41:31.059
But like it was originally acquired uh by for a second.

00:41:31.059 --> 00:41:33.891
But I think that uh I don't know.

00:41:33.891 --> 00:41:39.496
And the story could it could very much go either adult or it could go YA.

00:41:39.496 --> 00:41:40.735
It was pitched as YA.

00:41:40.735 --> 00:41:42.414
And that's what I'm working on.

00:41:42.414 --> 00:41:44.273
And you know, think St.

00:41:44.273 --> 00:41:45.713
Catherine kind of is like that too.

00:41:45.713 --> 00:41:46.393
I think St.

00:41:46.393 --> 00:41:50.534
Catherine is like in that bridge between YA and adult.

00:41:51.554 --> 00:42:01.134
And yeah, but also to say I am working on something else and I love, 23rd Street has been so incredible.

00:42:01.134 --> 00:42:10.873
I'm so excited for the books coming out from 23rd Street and just seeing like more dedicated adult graphic novels that are in the spirit of a first, second story.

00:42:10.873 --> 00:42:11.704
I think it's just like.

00:42:11.704 --> 00:42:14.606
really cool and I'm so honored to be a part of it.

00:42:14.606 --> 00:42:21.085
Yeah, as you said, as I talked about earlier at the beginning of the conversation, 23rd street and first second, absolutely killing it.

00:42:21.085 --> 00:42:27.445
You know, later this month, we're going to be talking to Jesse Larrigan for drone, which I also have right here next to me as well.

00:42:27.445 --> 00:42:28.365
Absolutely incredible.

00:42:28.365 --> 00:42:29.226
good.

00:42:30.085 --> 00:42:32.780
His panel work is amazing.

00:42:32.780 --> 00:42:33.965
One of a kind, right?

00:42:33.965 --> 00:42:40.161
And then I've heard you express admiration, but Jen Wang is also someone who I really want to eventually talk to here on the show.

00:42:40.161 --> 00:42:40.541
Yes.

00:42:40.541 --> 00:42:42.163
ah Amazing.

00:42:42.403 --> 00:42:54.952
She was actually like, when I was in like my early twenties, I had a roommate who was just like getting rid of a couple books and they were like, I think he would like this book and hand me Coco Be Good.

00:42:54.952 --> 00:43:02.869
And I was in the web comic world and I was like, wait a minute, this is like a full comic, but in like book form.

00:43:02.869 --> 00:43:05.311
Like I didn't, like I had read serialized comics.

00:43:05.311 --> 00:43:07.273
I had read a lot of web comics, but I was...

00:43:07.273 --> 00:43:29.010
sort of like I didn't know this existed and you know saw the little first second logo on the spine and I just really fixed it on for a second and I would you know pick up so many of their books and ah yeah and so going back to what we were talking about earlier like they were such a dream publisher for me and so being able to work with them has just been again like another dream come true.

00:43:29.038 --> 00:43:29.699
Sure.

00:43:29.699 --> 00:43:32.751
Can I press you just a little bit on this new project?

00:43:32.751 --> 00:43:50.123
Again, I don't want you to try to I don't want to mind you for anything here, but are there any sort of loose ideas or is there anything that we can sort of noodle on here in this conversation leading up to this eventual second installment in the on a Meyer bibliography?

00:43:50.155 --> 00:43:54.307
Well, I will say it is very different from such a veteran.

00:43:54.467 --> 00:44:00.378
But in like its subject matter and like setting, it's a period piece.

00:44:00.378 --> 00:44:02.012
It's a little more of an adventure.

00:44:02.012 --> 00:44:10.275
um And uh it is, there's lots of boats in it, which I'm so excited to be drawing.

00:44:10.297 --> 00:44:23.431
But I think one of the through lines that you see in this story is I find that a lot of my stories, I'm very fixated on superstition and what people like how people form different superstitions.

00:44:23.431 --> 00:44:28.655
And so I think that when I think about all the stories I've like written up in my head that always plays into it.

00:44:28.655 --> 00:44:31.889
So while it's a very different story than uh St.

00:44:31.889 --> 00:44:41.925
Catherine, it being like sort of an Arctic monster hunting story, it still deals with a lot of superstition and a lot of the fear of the unknown as well.

00:44:42.668 --> 00:44:46.760
What's the superstition that you have that you just can't get over?

00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:48.277
Like you have to do it.

00:44:48.277 --> 00:44:50.300
God, there's like, there's too many.

00:44:50.300 --> 00:44:53.943
have this, um, I have this little, um, I hate flying.

00:44:53.943 --> 00:44:55.123
really, and it's been a newer thing.

00:44:55.123 --> 00:45:05.932
I really, I'm really so scared when I'm flying and I have this little like rock that I put in my shoe whenever I fly and it just like makes me feel better.

00:45:05.932 --> 00:45:12.342
uh Yeah, I'm like, I can be, I remember a friend asked me, they were like, are you superstitious?

00:45:12.342 --> 00:45:14.579
I'm like, yeah, I'm trying not to be, but I am.

00:45:14.579 --> 00:45:17.202
I'm like really embarrassed that I'm very superstitious.

00:45:17.202 --> 00:45:21.637
I think it comes from uh the Catholicism for sure.

00:45:21.637 --> 00:45:22.628
yeah.

00:45:24.257 --> 00:45:25.398
Interesting rock in the shoe.

00:45:25.398 --> 00:45:27.097
I've never heard that one before.

00:45:27.358 --> 00:45:29.438
I have a two part response to this one here.

00:45:29.438 --> 00:45:33.657
So number one, my superstition is not washing a jersey after like a big sports game.

00:45:33.657 --> 00:45:40.177
I know that that's like a total like man thing like and I do it because it makes sense in my brain.

00:45:40.177 --> 00:45:42.998
Like if we win, we got to keep that juju going, right?

00:45:42.998 --> 00:45:44.498
We to keep that thing rolling.

00:45:44.757 --> 00:45:47.297
But I will say on the flying side of things, and I'm definitely afraid of heights.

00:45:47.297 --> 00:45:49.617
I was very, very afraid of flying for a long time.

00:45:49.617 --> 00:45:51.500
I'm not anymore, but.

00:45:51.500 --> 00:45:53.851
It's almost it's this is going to sound really morbid.

00:45:53.851 --> 00:45:54.382
I apologize.

00:45:54.382 --> 00:45:59.985
But like when I get into that flying tube now, I just am like, you know what?

00:45:59.985 --> 00:46:04.798
If this is how I go, this is this is we all collectively decided to do this thing.

00:46:04.798 --> 00:46:09.021
We're all defying like human existence and God all at the same time.

00:46:09.021 --> 00:46:12.704
Like the and I say God and like general like little G God.

00:46:12.704 --> 00:46:16.947
But like, you know, like we're doing this very unhuman thing.

00:46:16.947 --> 00:46:21.230
And if we die from it, then I think that's just like part of the price of convenience.

00:46:22.481 --> 00:46:25.442
That's a very normal...

00:46:25.442 --> 00:46:28.389
I feel like that makes a lot of sense.

00:46:28.789 --> 00:46:34.867
My fiance is where he always tells me, he's like, well, if there's turbulence, I just know there's nothing I can do when there's...

00:46:34.867 --> 00:46:35.929
What do do?

00:46:36.269 --> 00:46:38.170
And I say, no, that's the problem.

00:46:38.170 --> 00:46:41.050
Someone who's a control freak, I have to be able to do something.

00:46:41.050 --> 00:46:47.730
And so I'm sitting there in the, you know, the plane seat and I'm going, okay, what can I possibly do?

00:46:47.730 --> 00:46:48.809
Can I fly the plane?

00:46:48.809 --> 00:46:52.489
Maybe I'll try to figure out a way because I have to have control of the situation.

00:46:52.489 --> 00:46:57.409
I think that's what flying is so scary to me is like, there's not much you can do.

00:46:57.610 --> 00:46:59.085
But yeah.

00:46:59.085 --> 00:47:06.710
You do the Iron Man 3 thing where you connect hands with six other people and form like a circle and you all sort of just glide down together.

00:47:06.710 --> 00:47:07.592
I know, right?

00:47:07.592 --> 00:47:14.916
I would probably try it because I feel like I know I'm not good at, I'm not always good at like just letting them.

00:47:14.916 --> 00:47:16.987
I'm like there has to be something I can do.

00:47:16.987 --> 00:47:20.306
I'm an eldest daughter so of course I'm like there's always a way out.

00:47:20.306 --> 00:47:20.746
Right.

00:47:20.746 --> 00:47:21.786
Right.

00:47:21.987 --> 00:47:24.998
Well, I've had such a great time talking to you today, not just about St.

00:47:24.998 --> 00:47:26.978
Catherine, but just also your career thus far.

00:47:26.978 --> 00:47:32.735
And I sort of wanted to end on sort of a general question that we like to ask our guests that come on here.

00:47:32.735 --> 00:47:35.916
And that's just sort of like, what are you enjoying recently?

00:47:35.916 --> 00:47:46.534
And that can be, you know, a comic that could be movies, a television series, an album, your second favorite podcast after the oblivion bar, just whatever you're sort of enjoying at the moment.

00:47:46.534 --> 00:47:48.585
I'd love to sort of just hear about it and we can.

00:47:48.661 --> 00:47:51.670
I'm sure there's something that we also, we sort of share a love for.

00:47:52.494 --> 00:47:59.489
I am reading Treasure Island for the first time and I was reading it on the beach, which was incredible.

00:47:59.489 --> 00:48:05.349
was reading, so I'm, another book that I'm reading right now is I'm reading Between Two Fires, which is really great.

00:48:05.349 --> 00:48:06.114
It's very St.

00:48:06.114 --> 00:48:07.485
Catherine coded.

00:48:07.735 --> 00:48:10.326
Blur, Chris Blurman, is that?

00:48:10.326 --> 00:48:11.096
I believe so.

00:48:11.096 --> 00:48:12.405
Yeah.

00:48:12.766 --> 00:48:13.606
But it's great.

00:48:13.606 --> 00:48:14.347
I recommend it.

00:48:14.347 --> 00:48:16.427
But I was going to the beach with some friends.

00:48:16.427 --> 00:48:21.929
Yes, I was going to be with some friends and it's like about a plague and like medieval France.

00:48:21.929 --> 00:48:23.510
It's not very beach reading.

00:48:23.510 --> 00:48:25.630
And I was like, this is not really the vibe.

00:48:25.630 --> 00:48:26.530
What can I read?

00:48:26.530 --> 00:48:30.452
And I saw Treasure Island on my bookshelf and I was like, I'll read this.

00:48:30.452 --> 00:48:31.771
And it was so enjoyable.

00:48:31.771 --> 00:48:35.773
I highly recommend reading Treasure Island on the beach.

00:48:35.773 --> 00:48:38.943
So I've been enjoying that.

00:48:39.110 --> 00:48:47.155
another um another uh comic that is very Catholic coded that I highly recommend is the Confessional.

00:48:47.155 --> 00:48:50.197
um That's a great comic that I read recently.

00:48:50.197 --> 00:48:53.920
It's like about vampires in New Orleans and there's like a priest in it.

00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:54.800
It's really great.

00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:57.326
So I recommend that for sure.

00:48:57.326 --> 00:48:59.945
I'm looking up the confessional right now because I'm curious.

00:48:59.945 --> 00:49:01.965
You said it was a confession or confessional.

00:49:02.865 --> 00:49:03.405
Confessional.

00:49:03.405 --> 00:49:04.186
Okay, got it.

00:49:04.186 --> 00:49:06.005
Because there's like a webtoon called the confession.

00:49:06.005 --> 00:49:10.065
That's why I was curious if that was okay.

00:49:10.675 --> 00:49:13.016
So I really enjoyed that.

00:49:13.016 --> 00:49:20.978
And yeah, and another another graphic novel that I read this year that I absolutely love was The Worst Journey in the World.

00:49:20.978 --> 00:49:24.523
I actually literally have it right here.

00:49:24.574 --> 00:49:25.755
It's like an art.

00:49:25.755 --> 00:49:29.527
It's about the Scott expedition to Antarctica.

00:49:29.527 --> 00:49:30.657
I highly recommend that.

00:49:30.657 --> 00:49:32.969
It's awesome.

00:49:32.969 --> 00:49:35.250
Yeah, books and comics I've been enjoying.

00:49:35.362 --> 00:49:37.943
I'm actually looking at the confessional now here by Paige Hender.

00:49:37.943 --> 00:49:40.643
You said that was for through Silver Sprocket.

00:49:40.643 --> 00:49:42.724
Great folks over there at Silver Sprocket.

00:49:42.844 --> 00:49:47.487
And this has sort of a similar I'm just looking at a couple of preview pages, but it has a very similar sort of color scheme.

00:49:47.487 --> 00:49:50.108
uh Certain parts of St.

00:49:50.108 --> 00:49:52.188
Catherine as well, sort of the sort of pink.

00:49:52.188 --> 00:49:54.530
What would you call this sort of color scheme?

00:49:54.655 --> 00:49:56.920
I mean, I would call it a limited color palette.

00:49:56.920 --> 00:49:58.003
go.

00:49:58.003 --> 00:50:00.007
Yeah, like a limited color palette.

00:50:00.253 --> 00:50:04.614
it's like pink, blue, white, some grays in there as well.

00:50:04.614 --> 00:50:05.693
Like, yeah, definitely.

00:50:05.693 --> 00:50:06.353
I can definitely see that.

00:50:06.353 --> 00:50:06.653
That's cool.

00:50:06.653 --> 00:50:07.534
I like this a lot.

00:50:07.534 --> 00:50:08.994
So those are great recommendations.

00:50:08.994 --> 00:50:09.974
I love it.

00:50:09.974 --> 00:50:15.313
Last thing I'll say, I think I heard you talk about your love of Constantine.

00:50:15.313 --> 00:50:16.114
Oh, yeah.

00:50:16.114 --> 00:50:18.637
DC movie from the 2000s with counter.

00:50:18.637 --> 00:50:19.617
Yeah.

00:50:19.677 --> 00:50:25.378
really like in the, in the two thousands, I loved like, um, I love Constantine.

00:50:25.378 --> 00:50:26.597
love Van Helsing.

00:50:26.597 --> 00:50:34.443
Like they all, they all felt, they all felt in that, like, I don't know that like, but 2000 sort of world, but yeah.

00:50:34.443 --> 00:50:39.996
Yeah, I don't know where I saw you talk about that, but that has forever been even back in the day.

00:50:39.996 --> 00:50:43.465
was a movie that I thought was always sort of criminally overlooked.

00:50:43.465 --> 00:50:46.586
And, you know, it's not perfect, of course, because it part of that era.

00:50:46.586 --> 00:50:52.119
But just just so innovative in the way that they they created that movie.

00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:56.000
And I think I've heard rumblings that they're going to return to that in some way.

00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:58.090
But it's just interesting.

00:50:58.090 --> 00:51:02.661
Have you ever read any of the Hellblazer stuff like the comic from the 80s?

00:51:02.661 --> 00:51:03.271
That's OK.

00:51:03.271 --> 00:51:03.882
I mean.

00:51:03.882 --> 00:51:06.282
We all get to things as we get to them, right?

00:51:06.282 --> 00:51:07.833
Like I'm trad more.

00:51:07.833 --> 00:51:13.416
We had him on the show earlier this last month, and he mentioned that he was just reading Prince Valiant for the first time.

00:51:13.416 --> 00:51:16.367
And that's like, I think for a lot of people, that's sort of a staple within comics.

00:51:16.367 --> 00:51:17.887
And I've never even read that myself.

00:51:17.887 --> 00:51:19.349
I've never even read Sandman.

00:51:19.349 --> 00:51:20.688
So I totally get that.

00:51:20.688 --> 00:51:22.949
Like there are certain things we get to when we get to them.

00:51:22.949 --> 00:51:25.030
But Hellblazer, I highly recommend it.

00:51:25.030 --> 00:51:26.161
I absolutely love it.

00:51:26.161 --> 00:51:30.862
And if you love the movie, there's a lot of that, obviously, in the comic as well.

00:51:30.862 --> 00:51:33.054
So yeah.

00:51:33.090 --> 00:51:36.900
Well, what a pleasure again, as I said a moment ago, so great to have you here on the show.

00:51:36.900 --> 00:51:39.891
Again, I can't praise St.

00:51:39.891 --> 00:51:40.842
Catherine enough.

00:51:40.842 --> 00:51:45.994
really think folks, this is something that not only just like it reads really well.

00:51:45.994 --> 00:51:59.989
I've been trying to search for a way to describe this throughout our conversation and cannot find a more romantic way to say it, but it's sort of just like even though the story isn't really comforting necessarily, I felt really comforting reading it, know?

00:51:59.989 --> 00:52:05.853
is one of those things that like just flipping through it, it just it was sort of a very pleasing experience to go through this book.

00:52:05.853 --> 00:52:11.894
Sometimes comics, even ones that I enjoy, can be a bit of a chore, right, to read.

00:52:11.894 --> 00:52:20.978
uh This to me, I think is something this will join a fraternity of books that I can hand someone go, hey, this is why comics are cool.

00:52:20.978 --> 00:52:28.722
And then I hand it to them and they they read this and then they, you know, very similar to Miss Souter from back in the day when she gave me my first Avengers book.

00:52:29.271 --> 00:52:30.481
Hopefully gets them into comic.

00:52:30.481 --> 00:52:33.342
This is a great poster child for why comics are great.

00:52:33.342 --> 00:52:39.025
And for this to be your first work ever, my gosh, just like what an incredible debut.

00:52:39.025 --> 00:52:44.646
And I cannot wait to see what this expedition see book, whatever you have going on next.

00:52:44.646 --> 00:52:46.027
I can't to see it.

00:52:48.987 --> 00:52:51.608
If I don't, I will still read it regardless.

00:52:51.608 --> 00:52:53.539
just I this book here, St.

00:52:53.539 --> 00:52:57.389
Catherine has made me a fan of yours uh forever.

00:52:57.389 --> 00:52:58.250
So.

00:52:58.981 --> 00:53:02.525
Thank you so much for creating this and thank you so much for joining us here on the Oblivion Bar.

00:53:02.525 --> 00:53:12.364
And I guess before I let you go, I'll bother you for one more sort of broad, how do people follow your work, handles on social media, all the things.

00:53:12.364 --> 00:53:16.675
Yeah, I mean, I think the best way to follow my work is on Instagram.

00:53:16.675 --> 00:53:18.876
My Instagram is bruiserkey.

00:53:18.876 --> 00:53:22.449
And you can also, it's that same handle on Blue Sky.

00:53:22.449 --> 00:53:28.481
I feel like right now, currently, Instagram and Blue Sky are the places that I'm most active.

00:53:28.481 --> 00:53:34.061
I like how you uh preface that with like right now because none of us know where like Instagram is gonna be in like six to eight.

00:53:34.061 --> 00:53:48.789
I know but you know like my I feel like for my handle usually if I need to you know jump ship to another platform usually I can get it if not then maybe I'll have a new one in the future but yeah Sure.

00:53:48.789 --> 00:53:52.309
Well, I'll have your website and all your handles linked below in the show notes for everybody.

00:53:52.309 --> 00:53:58.269
And also have a link to 23rd Street's website as well to purchase your copy of St.

00:53:58.269 --> 00:53:58.889
Catherine.

00:53:58.889 --> 00:54:03.905
So one last thing, I guess you said you're possibly going to be at New York Comic Con as well in October.

00:54:03.905 --> 00:54:07.543
Yes, briefly, I believe I'm gonna be there.

00:54:07.543 --> 00:54:10.150
I'll post it on my Instagram.

00:54:10.150 --> 00:54:11.472
There you go.

00:54:11.472 --> 00:54:14.476
But I believe it's gonna be Friday.

00:54:14.476 --> 00:54:15.387
OK, awesome.

00:54:15.387 --> 00:54:16.188
Well, I'll be at New York.

00:54:16.188 --> 00:54:19.570
And I mentioned in our original chat that I was going to try to find you.

00:54:19.570 --> 00:54:22.673
And as I said earlier, it was insanity from the moment.

00:54:22.673 --> 00:54:25.365
Like every day on the floor, I just was like working from the moment.

00:54:25.365 --> 00:54:30.181
But I will I will make an effort this time to just come and say hello in person this time.

00:54:30.181 --> 00:54:31.719
And thank you again for coming on the show.

00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:33.695
Yeah, of course, that would be great.

00:54:33.695 --> 00:54:34.106
Awesome.

00:54:34.106 --> 00:54:40.628
Well, Anna again, love to have you back on the show at some point when you eventually announced this, this new book and it's officially out.

00:54:40.628 --> 00:54:45.800
Love to have you back on whether again before or while it's already out, but uh what an absolute pleasure.

00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:48.251
And uh we'd love to talk to you again in the future.

00:54:48.552 --> 00:54:49.829
Thank you so much, Chris.

00:54:49.829 --> 00:54:51.269
uh