*BONUS EPISODE* INTERVIEW: Zack Quaintance

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Hey, this is Zach Quainance, the writer of the Death of Comics bookcase, and you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles.

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Joining us this week on the show is someone many may already know as a well-regarded comic book journalist for popular sites like The Beat and Comics Bookcase.

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Well, add Comic Book Scribe to his resume because The Death of Comics Bookcase Volume 1 is his recent crowdfunded anthology that, as of this recording, has well over 200 backers and just surpassed$10 ,000.

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It is my pleasure to welcome Zach Quaintance onto the Oblivion Bar podcast.

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Hey, how's it going, Chris?

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Thanks for that intro.

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I like hearing where the project's at.

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feels good when people say it.

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So they think that's the first time I've heard someone say it out loud.

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So that's right.

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Which I mean, it only happened what a couple of days ago.

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Yeah, it's been, I mean, it feels like weeks for me because every day is so packed, but yeah, it's, it's only been like 10 days or whatever.

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Sure.

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Well, Zach, so thank you so much for coming onto the show.

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I appreciate you coming on to talk about the death of book, excuse me, the death of comics bookcase.

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And I wanted to start off the conversation kind of talking about getting, you know, our listeners familiar with not only the death of comics bookcase, but also highlight.

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you know, your storied relationship with the medium and with the comics industry.

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So in whatever link that you want to give to our listeners, could you give us a rundown of your career in comics and what you were doing before deciding to take on writing?

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So I've been like seriously involved with comics as an industry since about late 2017, early 2018, which is when I launched my, my now defunct blog, a comics bookcase.

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And before that, I've always been a writer.

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I was a journalist by trade.

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I still have a journalist day job and also a lifelong comic book fan.

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So I decided I kind of wanted to combine the two things and kind of give back to the industry and the medium a little bit.

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And so I launched a blog in 2018.

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And then later that same summer, Heidi McDonald, who's run the beat for 20 years now, this is the Beats 20th anniversary this year, put out an all call on Twitter looking for journalists to help cover San Diego Comic -Con that summer.

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And I said, you know, I have a comics blog, I'm a journalist, I'd love to do this.

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She got me a pass, I went, I covered it for the Beat and I kept contributing to the Beat ever since.

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That went on for a few years, the blog grew, like I think at our peak, we were doing pretty well, we were updating.

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four or five times a day, reviewing comics, interviewing creators.

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And then in 2022, I decided, you know, running your own blog is pretty tiresome.

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So I'm going to - Creating in general is super tiresome, right?

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Yeah, yeah.

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And it was honestly, it was a matter of like, I feel like to do it right, it's like what you all do, like the podcasting and like, you got to be on every platform and everything.

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And I was just like, man, I don't know those tricks.

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Like, I just kind of want to write.

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And so I talked to Heidi and I went full time.

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more so at the beat.

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And at the same time that cleared my schedule massively and I was finally able to like really hone a lot of the ideas I've been working on and start creating my own comics with my new free time after kind of putting my blog on pause.

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And now I'm killing that blog.

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And that's the story we have here in front of us.

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Now I'm curious.

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So again, you just mentioned a moment ago that you kind of created the comics bookcase as a way to celebrate the medium and such just kind of broadly before we get into the death of it.

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Do you miss doing comics bookcase at all now?

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Sometimes.

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I don't miss the like grind of it.

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I miss the people I was working with over there.

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So like I was working with some really great, great people on that blog, like Lisa Gullickson from comic books, couples counseling contributed.

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And we had a lot of writers that would contribute a few pieces and go on to write for the comics journal and comics XF and all these.

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So I got to meet a lot of really cool people who cared a lot about comics and knew about comics I didn't know about.

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And I missed that part of it a lot.

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Thankfully, social media and everything exists and I'm able to keep in touch with most everyone I worked with.

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Not quite as frequently as I'd like, but more or less.

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Yeah.

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You know, it's funny about comics, Twitter, comics, fandoms online in general.

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I mean, comics Twitter was really fun and I'm sure you would agree maybe.

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what, 10 years ago, it was really, really fun.

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And it's kind of, I mean, it's still fun.

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Obviously if you're on, if you're on social media for comics, you can still find pockets of fellowship and camaraderie and you can celebrate things that you love.

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And to be honest, I think that's actually how we met initially was not only through social media, but also through Lisa, you know, speaking of Lisa Gullickson, she was one who introduced us through, you know, through the beat.

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So I'm very thankful for her for that.

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And it obviously exposed me.

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I was already familiar with comics bookcase, but I, you know, and I've heard you say this in other conversations that a lot of people reference to you or knew you as comics bookcase or they called you Mr.

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Bookcase, right?

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Like that was kind of your moniker.

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Yeah.

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People, people would make jokes like, Oh, that's a great take for a piece of furniture.

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And I'd be like, come on, that's not, Oh, come on.

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Take written by a piece of furniture.

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I'm a person.

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But yeah, I was like a character on comics Twitter a little bit because I did.

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I ran the Twitter account for Comics Bookcase.

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I'd use the first person and it was about my relationship with comics.

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It was always a thing of I was trying to do it to promote the blog, but I would get a lot of engagement through people who would never dream of clicking on one of the blog links, but they loved to reply to the tweets and knew me that way.

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But yeah, I made a lot of friends on there.

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Yeah, it was a good time.

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This is relevant to a similar way as...

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the comics bookcase and the oblivion bar just podcasting in general is that you can have these followings on social media.

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You can have online friends or what have you, but to get people to actually check out the thing that you're creating behind that account is, and I'm telling everyone listening right now, just so I'm sure most people know this, listening to this right now, that is one of the most difficult things to do.

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So hard to get people to just click the link and check it out.

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Yeah.

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And it's like, it's especially odd to me.

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Like if you're, if you're known to a person because you're talking about comics on social media and then you're like, Hey, I did a whole hour conversation on this podcast about comics.

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You want to listen to it?

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And they're like, no, no, that's not for me.

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I just want to read these incremental takes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's like, it's the same thing.

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Like it's the same thing.

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Like just give it a shot.

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You know, not a lot to ask.

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It's free also.

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That's, I guess that's one of the true downfalls of social media is that folks will also often just like either look at the replies, look at the headline and then make a snap decision.

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based on that or someone else's other informed, uninformed opinion.

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And that's, you know, that's, that feels like a whole nother conversation that we could get into.

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And we don't have to today because I want to spend the majority of our time together talking about the death of comics bookcase.

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And I have a synopsis here.

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If you don't mind, I'm going to read that for the, for the listener here.

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This is the synopsis for volume one.

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After their camping trip was hit by a thunderstorm, a group of teens wander into a creepy old house, which turns out to be the comics bookcase HQ inside.

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They come face to face with the living speaking.

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and truly awful comics bookcase.

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He claims he wants to tell everyone, tell them stories, but can they trust him?

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So truthfully, my favorite part about reading this first volume of the death of comics bookcase, it becomes apparent very quickly that we are in the hands of someone who knows and truly understands the medium.

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You play around with the inside baseball and the shorthand of reading comics in a way that doesn't alienate those that don't catch those small jokes, but it does give those that do like us.

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the warm and fuzzies that we've come to know and love from the medium.

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Yeah, I think there's layers to it.

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Like I think, I think, yeah, like you said, and I appreciate you saying that, like if you don't, if you're not a person who spends all your time thinking about comics or maybe you're just kind of a casual reader, I think it's a lot of fun with just the story concepts, but I think there's another layer then for people who know comics as a medium really well.

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There's like nods to certain classic comics and, um, constructs like the old EC horror hosts.

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And then there's a third layer even deeper past that of jokes for people like us who do their own sites and podcasts and no comics Twitter.

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So yeah, I think there's like several different layers to engage in.

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You can go as deep as you want, or you can just read it for the stories.

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I think it works.

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I hope it works for all those different groups.

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Oh, 100 % of us.

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And I'm curious, just kind of your temperature check across the board for followers or just.

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friends or whomever you've had read the Death of Comics bookcase, what seems to be kind of the more prevailing popular entry in that anthology?

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Oh, the werewolf priest is the breakout star.

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I would say out of all the stories, that's the one I hear about the most or the people want to talk about the most.

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It's the lead story too.

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So you would hope that that's the one that grabs people and gets them to say like, yeah, I'm in for the whole ride after they read that one.

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But yeah, like that's the conversation starter.

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And I'm glad, I'm glad that one is, cause that one's kind of constructed to be a series eventually, like a full, we have plans to build it into a full series.

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So, but yeah, that's, that's the star so far of the, of the couple dozen people who read the book as of now.

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I mean, when you have Anna Redman on the book, it's, I mean, it makes sense, right?

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And just kind of based on that and, you know, the story itself, did you anticipate that one?

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And that is that why you chose that as the first entry in the anthology?

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Yeah.

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You know, it was weird.

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Like I kind of late did.

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The stories read in the anthology in the order I made them.

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So there's very chronological into how, like I just made one after the other and arranged them that way.

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I never thought twice about like, maybe I should move this one or that one.

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But that, if it wasn't for the idea for that story and Anna being willing to work with me on that story, like the rest of them wouldn't exist.

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It's like that simple.

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Cause that was the first idea.

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That was the first one we went all in on doing as a pitch with a backup plan to like.

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Like we didn't want it to be one of those pitches that you hear about where people are, we had this great pitch, but no one's ever going to see it because it didn't for any one of a hundred reasons, it didn't go.

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Uh, so we built this backup plan around it while working on that pitch that like, we were going to put it in this anthology.

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Um, and I talked to a few editors to make sure like, Hey, if this shows up in an anthology, like that disqualify it from being a pitch you'd look at.

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And they all said, no.

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So took off from there.

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Isn't that what Hellboy wasn't Hellboy in an anthology before he eventually like Malibu son or something like that.

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I can't remember exactly.

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Yeah, it was either that or it was like a short comic they passed out at San Diego, something like that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, I shared a thing on Twitter earlier today.

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Everyone were for everyone listening.

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And now we're brand new back on Twitter.

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We were on for a long time.

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We hopped off for obvious reasons.

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And then now we're back.

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But there was a panel I really love.

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And I won't spoil anything for anybody that hasn't read it yet.

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But it's kind of a play on a panel you had earlier in the story.

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where it's like Cox News, which is obviously a play on Fox News and they're doing their normal performative hyper bowl.

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And as our, I will say our titular villain is attacking, the people that he's attacking says something like, must be a migrant on fentanyl, probably trying to vote.

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I'm glad you caught that one.

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Yeah.

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Cause that's a, that I was really proud of that joke where there maybe shouldn't be a joke cause it's a horror story, but like.

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But yeah, I couldn't resist kind of doing a call back to the first, the very first page.

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It's like a call back.

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Um, yeah, I'm glad you liked that one.

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I saw that panel and I was like, hell yeah, somebody got it.

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Yeah.

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And I don't know if I already said this or not, but it is my favorite story in the anthology as well of the, you know, what is one, two, three, four, five that we have here in this story.

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Uh, the werewolf priest is I think the one that I am most intrigued by and of the couple of conversations that I've listened to you talk about this, it seems like that in, you already said it too, seems to be the one that people are excited about.

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And you have active pitches for this.

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And is it the gold mask as well?

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Gold mask.

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Yeah, gold mask is so the difference between them.

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The Werewolf Priest is the first eight pages of a number one issue.

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Like we have I've scripted the rest of it.

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Like that's basically act one of what would be number one of it has a different series name because it's kind of a monster of the week concept.

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It's not always going to be aware of priests.

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But yeah, and then gold mask, which is a fantasy comic, is more of a proof of concept, but just kind of an introduction of the character.

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but there's also like an outline and hope among the entire creative team to eventually pitch that as a series and build that into a fantasy mini series.

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I really love that character.

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I love writing that character and I love the, the character design that Luke Horseman did for that.

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It just doesn't get better.

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It always makes me laugh.

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I love it too.

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Gold mass was definitely up there and I don't have a question around this, but I do want to say just briefly that as I was reading this for the first time, The Web of Priests obviously, like I said, was my favorite, but I felt like as I kept going and you know how anthologies go, sometimes you'll read the first one and it's really good and then you'll kind of like just nothing peaks after that.

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Respectfully, of course, I felt like as I kept reading, I found something I liked about every single one.

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You know, the responsibility, a responsibility.

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I think it's how you say it is basically, you know, kind of a riff on, you know, amazing fantasy and early Spider -Man and kind of, but also dealing with like modern AI issues and things like that.

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The gold mask, which is like you just talked about briefly was a smart mouth, dark mage gold mask who finally has infiltrated the tower of Zacchadus.

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Is that how you say that?

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Zadakus.

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Zadakus.

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Thank you.

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And then, you know, it tries to steal a fabled dark artifact.

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The next door to which is actually a continuation of another comic that you had done before.

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Correct.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's next door was a one shot that I did in 20.

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It came out in 2021 and also crowdfunded.

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And this is like a first 10 pages of.

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what would be next door number two.

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Yeah.

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And you know, as someone who has not, you know, regrettably has not read next door quite yet.

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I still think that I found a lot of enjoyment in that, that second part.

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And if nothing else, it made me more intrigued to want it to eventually check out next door number one.

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Oh, I appreciate that.

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Yeah.

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It was built to standalone.

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Um, there's like a, uh, half a page kind of like where they talk about the events of the first one, but I feel like you can read, write, pass on and just get into the story from, from the, from the word go.

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But yeah, that.

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And that's one we want to do more of as well, obviously.

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Yeah.

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And then the final story is Apes versus Sharks, the Omega Brain 4.

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Yeah.

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Which if everyone listening right now, if that sounds insane, it's I think kind of the funny premises behind the story is that the Apes versus Sharks is not entirely the central part of this story.

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Am I fair to say that?

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I think that's fair.

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Yeah.

00:14:50.645 --> 00:14:53.317
It definitely started as like...

00:14:53.518 --> 00:14:54.638
That one had a long journey.

00:14:54.638 --> 00:14:56.368
Like it took me a long time to write that one.

00:14:56.368 --> 00:14:58.467
And it started as something and became something else.

00:14:58.467 --> 00:15:00.557
But yeah, it starts with apes versus sharks.

00:15:00.557 --> 00:15:09.518
And it starts with the idea of like, I was making a 48 page comic and I thought to myself, like, there's just no way I'm going to make a 48 page comic and not have some apes in it.

00:15:09.557 --> 00:15:13.918
I've passed the threshold for, for how many stories I've done without apes.

00:15:13.918 --> 00:15:14.587
So it's time.

00:15:14.587 --> 00:15:15.118
That's right.

00:15:15.118 --> 00:15:21.504
But yeah, it ended up being really personal, like surprisingly, even to me as I worked on it and I was like, Oh man, what am I doing with this?

00:15:21.549 --> 00:15:26.269
Uh, and I, it's probably the one I'm like most nervous for people to read out of all of them.

00:15:26.269 --> 00:15:26.870
Hmm.

00:15:26.870 --> 00:15:36.529
Well, it's interesting because I think that, uh, there are a couple, I would say the responsibility, teen gold mask, I would say parts of next door, number two and apes versus sharks.

00:15:36.529 --> 00:15:50.094
What I really appreciate about all of them and what I think readers will find really interesting as well is that your voice and each of those, I feel like you're able to tell what sort of, uh, you know, I wouldn't say political thoughts you're trying to put out to the reader, but.

00:15:50.094 --> 00:15:57.153
I would say like your moral compass is evident in these stories and it's, but it's not something that I think is a overbearing.

00:15:57.153 --> 00:16:08.854
Uh, you know, I don't really believe that that you're always going to put parts of yourself in your work, but like it feels there's this perfect levy of just a good cohesive story.

00:16:08.854 --> 00:16:16.033
And then there's that slight undertone of, uh, you know, here's like a, here's a sub subliminal sort of view as well.

00:16:16.033 --> 00:16:16.354
I'm sorry.

00:16:16.354 --> 00:16:19.405
I'm just sort of spinning my wheels trying to describe it, but I just really appreciated it.

00:16:19.405 --> 00:16:20.885
Yeah, I think you're right.

00:16:20.885 --> 00:16:24.846
There's not a single one of these stories that I set out to make any kind of point.

00:16:24.846 --> 00:16:29.905
Not one of them is built like, I believe this about that and I want to get that across.

00:16:29.905 --> 00:16:35.115
But what happened with a lot of them is they would start with the high concept, like the really pulpy, like I love pulp comics.

00:16:35.115 --> 00:16:39.446
I love comics that are fun and kind of wank and they're just like a good time.

00:16:39.466 --> 00:16:46.062
And so the concepts for all of them started that way, whether it was a werewolf priest, a dark mage with a smart mouth, apes fighting sharks.

00:16:46.062 --> 00:16:47.741
or making a new superhero.

00:16:47.741 --> 00:16:52.961
They all started with the idea of, let's do something that I personally like about comics.

00:16:52.961 --> 00:16:54.442
I want to make that kind of comic.

00:16:54.442 --> 00:16:59.341
And then as I worked on it more and more, I wanted it to be unique to me.

00:16:59.341 --> 00:17:03.041
What can I add here to these things I love?

00:17:03.381 --> 00:17:08.731
How can I make it my version of a superhero, my version of a horror story, all these different things?

00:17:08.731 --> 00:17:14.958
And the more personal became these sort of like, I don't think there's really, like you said, you're right, it's not.

00:17:14.958 --> 00:17:20.877
political, but like it's what I'm feeling about what's happening in the world around me is in all these stories.

00:17:20.877 --> 00:17:27.877
And like moral compass, like I think gold mass kind of that story more than anything speaks to my personal moral compass.

00:17:27.877 --> 00:17:32.488
Like, like, like gold mass sort of doesn't set out to do the right thing.

00:17:32.488 --> 00:17:37.958
And like, we can like talk about why that makes me shitty or whatever, but he ends up doing it.

00:17:37.958 --> 00:17:39.917
And then he ends up complaining about it the whole time.

00:17:39.917 --> 00:17:41.768
And that's how I feel as a person in the world.

00:17:41.768 --> 00:17:44.289
So that was like, its way into my fantasy story.

00:17:44.289 --> 00:17:49.150
And I think they all have like, like there's one about my relationship to AI and the werewolf priest.

00:17:49.150 --> 00:17:54.549
I was a journalist in South Texas and that kind of that character found its way into that story also.

00:17:54.549 --> 00:17:59.650
So they all have, they all have a little bit, if you know me, you'll probably be tired of me by the end of the reading this book.

00:17:59.650 --> 00:18:00.960
I disagree.

00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:02.329
I was intrigued personally.

00:18:02.329 --> 00:18:10.430
I'll tell everyone as a first time reader of Zach's work, this is something that I, I I'm definitely, and I know that, you know, the death of comics bookcase volume two is already in production, right?

00:18:10.430 --> 00:18:11.150
Like it's already.

00:18:11.150 --> 00:18:14.769
If not production, it's already been like planned, correct?

00:18:14.769 --> 00:18:17.369
Yeah, like I have I know every story.

00:18:17.369 --> 00:18:19.250
I know every story that would be in it.

00:18:19.250 --> 00:18:20.369
I've outlined it.

00:18:20.369 --> 00:18:21.430
I have loose notes.

00:18:21.430 --> 00:18:24.369
When the campaign's done, I'll start scripting.

00:18:24.369 --> 00:18:38.609
I have artists in mind and like some of the same characters will come back like I'm not entirely like it like a little bit of it is up to like if the gold mass pitch or the werewolf priest pitch turn into anything like but definitely.

00:18:39.117 --> 00:18:40.288
I have a title for it.

00:18:40.288 --> 00:18:41.728
Like, yeah, it's, it's happening.

00:18:41.728 --> 00:18:45.057
And the, like, the better the campaign does, the faster it'll happen.

00:18:45.057 --> 00:18:48.397
Cause I like to, I like to get the comics made ahead of time.

00:18:48.397 --> 00:18:53.278
I don't want any of the artists to have to work under some promise that like, we're going to split the Kickstarter or whatever.

00:18:53.278 --> 00:18:56.258
Cause that's no fun to have that uncertainty.

00:18:56.258 --> 00:19:01.357
So yeah, like the better this does, the faster they'll go right into production and we'll get it out there.

00:19:01.357 --> 00:19:05.710
Now with the success that we've highlighted there at the beginning of the introduction.

00:19:05.710 --> 00:19:10.789
you know, over 200 backers just surpassed$10 ,000 in terms of like overall support, which is incredible.

00:19:10.789 --> 00:19:16.609
I mean, but I'm curious specifically, is that support for a Kickstarter campaign, specifically a comic book?

00:19:16.609 --> 00:19:17.680
Is that huge?

00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:20.490
You know, can you, can you kind of contextualize that for everybody?

00:19:20.490 --> 00:19:25.130
I'm not walking away with a ton of money because it's like making indie comics is expensive.

00:19:25.130 --> 00:19:30.089
And like, I, like I aimed high with the artists and had colorists and all these things.

00:19:30.089 --> 00:19:33.453
Um, but it is, uh, really great.

00:19:33.453 --> 00:19:34.993
to get that kind of support.

00:19:34.993 --> 00:19:37.624
And basically at this point, a print run is paid for.

00:19:37.624 --> 00:19:39.523
I have a little bit of money to start making the next one.

00:19:39.523 --> 00:19:43.253
And it's like, I just want more backers because I'm really, really proud of this book.

00:19:43.253 --> 00:19:44.913
And I want it to be the start of something.

00:19:44.913 --> 00:19:50.854
I want this to be one of those campaigns that people follow through all three planned volumes.

00:19:50.854 --> 00:19:52.874
And it kind of builds and brings in more people.

00:19:52.874 --> 00:19:54.354
And there's word of mouth and everything.

00:19:54.354 --> 00:20:01.261
And that was part of the reason, too, I wanted to make the whole book ahead of the campaign so that we could get it right to the printer as soon as like.

00:20:01.261 --> 00:20:11.122
as soon as the money clears, essentially, because my last experience with Kickstarter, I just felt like we interest in the book sort of peaks when you're promoting it daily and then you're exhausted.

00:20:11.122 --> 00:20:13.981
And then it takes a year or whatever it might take to make it.

00:20:13.981 --> 00:20:16.461
And then people like get it in the mail and they're like, what is this?

00:20:16.461 --> 00:20:24.721
Like I had one guy on Twitter, like I had these comics bookcase stickers that I were a stretch goal and went out with every issue in next door.

00:20:24.721 --> 00:20:29.221
And some guy like tagged me on Twitter and was like, I don't know where I got this or what it is, but it's kind of cool.

00:20:29.221 --> 00:20:32.226
And I'm like, That was what the comic I really cared about.

00:20:32.226 --> 00:20:33.486
Like, thanks for remembering that.

00:20:33.486 --> 00:20:35.806
Also, you put your credit card down for this, just so you know.

00:20:35.806 --> 00:20:36.766
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:20:36.766 --> 00:20:38.086
You paid money for that.

00:20:38.086 --> 00:20:40.826
So like, but yeah, that kind of stung and stuck with me.

00:20:40.826 --> 00:20:43.635
And I was like, well, next time they'll remember where they got that sticker.

00:20:43.635 --> 00:20:44.576
That's right.

00:20:44.576 --> 00:20:52.365
Well, you kind of alluded to this a moment ago, but it feels sort of like this first volume is, you know, a love letter that's written with a poison tip pen.

00:20:52.365 --> 00:20:55.425
And what I mean by when I say that is that you obviously love the medium.

00:20:55.425 --> 00:20:59.117
And as we said earlier, you've been a leading force in terms of analyzing critiquing it.

00:20:59.117 --> 00:21:10.438
for some time now, but at the same time, you know, you've been high, you highlight and you poke fun at certain parts of, you know, the typical cliches that comic books are known for in a way that says like, you know, isn't this silly?

00:21:10.438 --> 00:21:13.557
You know, like we're all, this is, we all know that this is super silly, right?

00:21:13.557 --> 00:21:25.478
Uh, and my question for you though is how much of that is holding up a mirror to the medium and embracing its silliness or, uh, and you know, how much of that is you just highlighting the many different tones you think a comic book can juggle at the same time?

00:21:25.478 --> 00:21:27.298
I think it's more of the latter.

00:21:27.298 --> 00:21:38.162
Like, I think one of the things I love about comics is the versatility and how it can be something serious like a graphic memoir about trauma with no humor whatsoever.

00:21:38.162 --> 00:21:42.061
And it can be really, really fun and all humor.

00:21:42.061 --> 00:21:46.902
And it can be that my favorite comics tend to be this amazing intersection of the two.

00:21:46.902 --> 00:21:55.917
I think Grant Morrison is a writer that does that really well, that appreciates comics for it being a lighter medium.

00:21:55.917 --> 00:22:10.577
very accessible and capable of being irreverent, but also can be used to make a serious point and really get at something honest about yourself you can't say in any way.

00:22:10.577 --> 00:22:16.788
Grant Morrison and Frank Quietly's Flex Mentallo does that incredibly well.

00:22:16.788 --> 00:22:24.357
And I'd say that's one of the main inspirations, particularly for the ape shark story, where it takes the medium seriously.

00:22:24.357 --> 00:22:25.549
And obviously you can't...

00:22:25.549 --> 00:22:37.099
make comics of that quality without absolutely loving comics, but it also kind of pokes a little bit of fun at it and the history of it and just like how unique and singular the medium is.

00:22:37.099 --> 00:22:44.589
And that's what I was kind of, that's what I found myself doing, like as I kind of got deeper and deeper into this, just having fun with it.

00:22:44.589 --> 00:22:47.849
But yeah, it's my take on comics, right?

00:22:47.849 --> 00:22:53.773
Like I would never tell anyone who like, like there's people who will refer to a comic as the text and I've always kind of like.

00:22:53.773 --> 00:22:58.874
I respect that enough, but I would never refer to a comic as the text.

00:22:59.653 --> 00:23:01.913
My version is a little lighter.

00:23:01.913 --> 00:23:16.713
That implies, I think, and I agree with you 100%, I think that implies that the text, the continuity is ever important and that we should stick to it and that we shouldn't use the flexibility of continuity, but we should stick to it as like a Bible in a way, right?

00:23:16.713 --> 00:23:17.213
Yeah.

00:23:17.213 --> 00:23:22.829
It's just so permanent and serious sounding, like an academic paper or like a religious document.

00:23:22.829 --> 00:23:23.150
I don't know.

00:23:23.150 --> 00:23:57.642
Yeah, I just it's never felt like quite right to me to like take comics that seriously but I respect people who do and I and like and I know like Some people think like oh well We'll never be taken that seriously as a medium if we don't like really kind of buy into like But I think there's room for everything like and like I said That's the versatility of it in the way it can cover that whole spectrum is the thing I really love about comics in particular and the way like Some of my favorite creators who make the most serious kind of high -minded comics I'll see them on social media reading just total goofy stuff and loving it.

00:23:57.642 --> 00:23:59.662
You know, like, and I love when that happens.

00:23:59.662 --> 00:23:59.761
Yeah.

00:23:59.761 --> 00:24:03.862
You got Tom King posting pictures of him reading, you know, the peanuts or whatever, you know?

00:24:03.862 --> 00:24:05.201
Yeah, exactly.

00:24:05.201 --> 00:24:05.622
Yeah.

00:24:05.622 --> 00:24:08.221
And I love what you said there a moment ago and I agree 100%.

00:24:08.221 --> 00:24:20.082
I can't remember who said this exactly, but I think it went something to the effect of like most mediums, you know, it will say like prose novels or what have you are written in permanent marker, but comics are written in dry erase.

00:24:20.382 --> 00:24:20.653
So.

00:24:20.653 --> 00:24:26.233
in a way that, and I think what they meant by that is that there's a flexibility to the medium that a lot of others don't, right?

00:24:26.233 --> 00:24:31.653
Like if you read a Batman story from Grant Morrison and a Batman story from Tom King, they're probably wildly different, right?

00:24:31.653 --> 00:24:36.213
And that also speaks to the flexibility of the character of Batman, but also you can do that with a lot of different characters, you know?

00:24:36.213 --> 00:24:43.473
I mean, yeah, I just think, yeah, there's just something inherent to the way, like making comics is really labor intensive and takes a long time.

00:24:43.473 --> 00:24:58.993
And like, I think as they're being made, like you, new ideas can occur to you in a way that, Other storytelling mediums where like you kind of finalize a script for a television show, it goes into production and it's locked in.

00:24:58.993 --> 00:25:02.253
Don't like you can like, I mean, you're rewriting, you're doing lettering passes.

00:25:02.253 --> 00:25:08.324
Like some of the jokes in the framing sequence were 100 % at it after colors came back.

00:25:08.324 --> 00:25:17.261
Like, and I was reading it for the, looking through these pages for the eighth time and like new things were still popping and occurring to me just because of the process being that long.

00:25:17.261 --> 00:25:23.041
it doesn't strain the credibility of a story that was already about a talking bookcase that had one more joke in there.

00:25:23.041 --> 00:25:30.771
Which of these entries do you think has been the most like, I wouldn't say grueling, but the one that's been the most challenging, I guess you would say.

00:25:30.771 --> 00:25:38.001
The two that were like for me as a creator, the two that were hardest to write were the Responsibility and Apes versus Sharks.

00:25:38.001 --> 00:25:41.531
Those ones really were labor intensive for me.

00:25:41.531 --> 00:25:44.622
They're both, they're more, they both have a little bit of meta fiction.

00:25:44.622 --> 00:25:50.721
And I think there was a bit of like, walking in big, big footsteps at play there.

00:25:50.721 --> 00:25:54.321
Like those are probably the two I'm most nervous about as well for people to read.

00:25:54.321 --> 00:25:56.461
But yeah, those ones took a lot of work.

00:25:56.461 --> 00:26:07.221
And I was also really nervous about bringing both of those artists on to make sure that they were kind of like in sync with the way we were playing with some of the ideas there.

00:26:07.241 --> 00:26:12.461
So yeah, those two were, were the ones that really took the biggest toll on me as a writer.

00:26:12.461 --> 00:26:12.882
Definitely.

00:26:12.882 --> 00:26:13.294
Sure.

00:26:13.294 --> 00:26:13.513
Yeah.

00:26:13.513 --> 00:26:15.443
And just for everyone that's aware, is everyone listening right now?

00:26:15.443 --> 00:26:19.574
The robots, the responsibility, teen art and letters and colors by Nick Cagnetti.

00:26:19.574 --> 00:26:20.453
Is that correct there?

00:26:20.453 --> 00:26:27.874
And then was it the apes versus sharks was artists PJ Holden, who maybe a lot of people might know from a Judd Strett.

00:26:27.894 --> 00:26:29.634
So, and both are great too.

00:26:29.634 --> 00:26:40.846
And it's, it's interesting that you say those two, two of your most challenging because I feel like as I look at the five entries of the death of comics bookcase, those two stand out to me as maybe the most impressive.

00:26:40.846 --> 00:26:41.746
Oh, thank you.

00:26:41.746 --> 00:26:43.205
I'm glad to hear you say that.

00:26:43.205 --> 00:26:43.865
Yeah, 100%.

00:26:43.865 --> 00:26:49.645
I mean, again, I already said that the Werewolf Priest is my favorite, but I think that alludes more to my taste in comics.

00:26:49.645 --> 00:27:00.865
I love sort of the Noire detective horror type of storyline, you know, but I will say that the responsibility, I won't say that like people who have never read comics can enjoy this.

00:27:00.865 --> 00:27:01.935
They absolutely can.

00:27:01.935 --> 00:27:08.625
But I think if you are familiar with the medium and you speak that language, you're going to get a kick, like a true kick out of this responsibility.

00:27:08.625 --> 00:27:13.942
And I know at one point you even have a moment where you point at the at the writer, you're talking like almost to yourself.

00:27:13.942 --> 00:27:18.662
And that meta, like you were saying a moment ago, is cycling through as you're reading it.

00:27:18.662 --> 00:27:27.571
So and then, of course, like I said, the apes versus sharks, the apes and the sharks are sort of a foreground, you know, setting like they're like not really the true pillar of the story.

00:27:27.571 --> 00:27:31.182
It's more so the character that has control of the omega brain.

00:27:31.182 --> 00:27:33.481
And I don't want you to have to try to explain the story to me.

00:27:33.481 --> 00:27:36.842
You know, obviously that's part of the journey of reading it and also creating it.

00:27:36.842 --> 00:27:40.238
But like my view of the story was that any time that.

00:27:40.238 --> 00:27:42.607
our main character needed to escape from reality.

00:27:42.607 --> 00:27:49.018
He would go, he would use the Omega brain and it would take him directly back into this wild world of apes versus sharks.

00:27:49.018 --> 00:27:51.948
But they also wanted something from him as well, you know?

00:27:51.948 --> 00:28:02.897
And I think that speaks to how like, uh, when you become a comic fan, uh, and I'm gonna speak broadly here, this obviously isn't ever the case of everyone, but I think from the folks that I know, there aren't people who just kind of read comics.

00:28:02.897 --> 00:28:03.307
You know what I mean?

00:28:03.307 --> 00:28:05.998
Like they read, they're a Wednesday warrior.

00:28:05.998 --> 00:28:08.718
They read comics, they listen to comic book podcasts.

00:28:08.718 --> 00:28:10.917
They go to see every single MCU film.

00:28:10.917 --> 00:28:13.978
They have a pull list maybe at one or two places.

00:28:13.978 --> 00:28:15.538
It's all of that, right?

00:28:15.538 --> 00:28:17.238
Definitely, 100%.

00:28:17.238 --> 00:28:18.798
It's for people like that.

00:28:18.798 --> 00:28:27.577
And for me, I also think that not only are you in that deep, but it tends to be a thing that you can't shake.

00:28:27.577 --> 00:28:31.657
You might come out of it a little bit, but it always sort of pulls you back.

00:28:31.738 --> 00:28:38.372
Especially for those of us, I feel like, who kind of got into it as kids and have really positive.

00:28:38.413 --> 00:28:39.953
Young memories of it.

00:28:39.953 --> 00:29:11.705
I think that there's just always a part of you that's kind of locked in to comics like at least the way I engaged with it as a kid like like I During college or right after college like maybe didn't have as much money to read comics or time or just like other things I was involved in and would step away a little bit But it was always there with me and I was always wondering what was going on and always coming back So like yeah that that was that was a big part of it is just kind of like saying like this has been my relationship to comics and then I The other side of that coin is like, plus I really love apes and comics.

00:29:12.165 --> 00:29:18.125
As we've said, as we, as we've highlighted earlier in the conversation, there's one thing I've established here on the show.

00:29:18.125 --> 00:29:21.165
It's my love of comic comic book apes.

00:29:21.526 --> 00:29:25.586
Did you see that DC did some kind of like eight month or eight?

00:29:25.605 --> 00:29:27.205
I read it.

00:29:27.205 --> 00:29:28.346
I can't remember what it was.

00:29:28.346 --> 00:29:29.685
It was April.

00:29:29.685 --> 00:29:30.266
April.

00:29:30.266 --> 00:29:32.685
There was just an anthology of ape stories.

00:29:32.685 --> 00:29:34.296
What's going on?

00:29:34.296 --> 00:29:35.758
Did you put in a pitch for that or no?

00:29:35.758 --> 00:29:36.708
No, no.

00:29:36.708 --> 00:29:37.798
Maybe next year.

00:29:37.798 --> 00:29:38.617
Maybe next year.

00:29:38.617 --> 00:29:41.837
I'm sure it'll be a huge hit and they'll do it every year now.

00:29:41.837 --> 00:29:42.337
Right.

00:29:42.337 --> 00:29:49.538
Well, I wanted to kind of briefly go back just a moment where we were just talking about there in terms of like what I find so interesting.

00:29:49.538 --> 00:29:56.637
And I think the reason why or part of the reason why I love the medium so much is that you can hand someone you can hand you have two folks in front of you.

00:29:56.637 --> 00:30:02.067
You have a six year old and a six year old and you can hand them Spider -Man Blue, you know, by Jeff Lowe and Tim Sale.

00:30:02.067 --> 00:30:02.678
Oh, yeah.

00:30:02.678 --> 00:30:03.981
And I guarantee you.

00:30:03.981 --> 00:30:06.682
they're both going to take out wildly different things from that book.

00:30:06.682 --> 00:30:09.061
That sort of speaks to the flexibility of the medium.

00:30:09.061 --> 00:30:15.592
Like as we were just talking about a moment ago and how as a kid you can read Spider -Man and go, man, I love, you know, his suits.

00:30:15.592 --> 00:30:16.372
I love his powers.

00:30:16.372 --> 00:30:17.461
I love his villains.

00:30:17.461 --> 00:30:18.172
That's all great.

00:30:18.172 --> 00:30:18.741
He's funny.

00:30:18.741 --> 00:30:19.342
Exactly.

00:30:19.342 --> 00:30:19.632
Yeah.

00:30:19.632 --> 00:30:27.501
All the, all the like, and you can like power fantasy, like sort of power fantasy your way into the POV of Peter in those stories.

00:30:27.501 --> 00:30:32.846
As an adult, what I think makes Spider-Man so compelling is that he can't be happy.

00:30:32.846 --> 00:30:35.346
If he is happy for more than 10 minutes, something will happen.

00:30:35.346 --> 00:30:36.786
Aunt May will die.

00:30:36.786 --> 00:30:38.425
MJ will break out with him.

00:30:38.425 --> 00:30:40.266
Something will happen.

00:30:40.266 --> 00:30:43.645
Or yeah, he gets fired from the Daily Bugle, something like that.

00:30:43.645 --> 00:30:50.935
And I think that speaks to the power of comics is that you remember as an adult that adults are making this.

00:30:50.935 --> 00:30:54.885
They're putting themselves into these stories and yeah, they're accessible for all ages.

00:30:55.246 --> 00:30:59.096
But again, I love the fact that you can do all that with one medium.

00:30:59.096 --> 00:31:00.814
You can't hand a 12 year old.

00:31:00.814 --> 00:31:04.493
Game of Thrones, most of them, you can't hold, you can't hand most of them.

00:31:04.493 --> 00:31:06.294
Yeah, you absolutely should not.

00:31:06.473 --> 00:31:12.433
But you know, you could hand, you know, a 12 year old, you know, for instance, like, I don't know if this is really appropriate.

00:31:12.433 --> 00:31:19.773
I don't really know what I think is appropriate for young people anymore because they have the entire world of violence and anger in their hands at all times.

00:31:19.773 --> 00:31:26.594
But you can hand them, you know, you can hand them Watchmen and I guarantee you, and that's a book that I read, I see on your shelf right behind you.

00:31:26.594 --> 00:31:29.743
That's a book I read every couple of years and pick up something new every time I read it.

00:31:29.743 --> 00:31:30.541
Yeah.

00:31:30.541 --> 00:31:33.201
It's like listening to The Beatles in a way.

00:31:33.201 --> 00:31:36.801
You read Watchmen when you're 12 and you like different parts of it.

00:31:36.801 --> 00:31:39.741
You read it when you're 18 and you like different parts of it.

00:31:39.741 --> 00:31:43.041
You read it when you're 25 and you like still different parts of it.

00:31:43.041 --> 00:31:45.021
Yeah, and that's a really great point.

00:31:45.021 --> 00:31:54.451
One of the books I was reading as I was working on these comics was Astro City by Kurt Busiek and Brent Anderson, which were comics that I had read as a kid and had liked.

00:31:54.451 --> 00:31:59.011
I was like, I just want to see different versions of superheroes that seem kind of familiar to me.

00:31:59.011 --> 00:31:59.854
That's great.

00:31:59.854 --> 00:32:10.894
And then I was re -reading them last year, last summer, into the fall and just like really appreciating the complexity of the human characters, the like smaller people in it.

00:32:10.894 --> 00:32:13.993
And I think that speaks right to that point.

00:32:13.993 --> 00:32:25.594
That's like comics has this ability to offer different things to different generations and to have that rereadability to a lot of it as you kind of grow and take new things away from some of these stories.

00:32:25.673 --> 00:32:26.821
100%.

00:32:26.829 --> 00:32:33.160
Well, Zach, I have one final question for you here and it has to do with sort of making the leap into the world of writing.

00:32:33.160 --> 00:32:39.089
And obviously you've been doing the writing for a while, but I guess I'm speaking specifically about the world of writing comics, you know?

00:32:39.089 --> 00:32:39.400
Sure.

00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:50.170
And many of us, you know, suffer from imposter syndrome and either don't know or can't make that emotional leap to at least attempt to write a script or reaching out to potential collaborators.

00:32:50.170 --> 00:32:54.998
So asking for a friend who, may or may not possibly be in this recording studio currently.

00:32:54.998 --> 00:33:04.917
What was your very first step in that process of creating stories and then putting in the back end work to make them real and then eventually having the courage to share them out into the world?

00:33:04.917 --> 00:33:05.678
It's hard.

00:33:05.678 --> 00:33:08.077
It's a great question because it is hard.

00:33:08.097 --> 00:33:17.948
The very first step was during the pandemic, a friend of mine, Pat Scott, who's an artist, reached out to me and was like, hey, I'm home on quarantine.

00:33:17.948 --> 00:33:20.258
Do you want to write a five page comic?

00:33:20.258 --> 00:33:23.105
And I was like, Yeah, let's do it.

00:33:23.105 --> 00:33:24.415
Sorry, my schedule's busy.

00:33:24.415 --> 00:33:26.705
I don't have a lot of time, but sure.

00:33:26.865 --> 00:33:27.685
Right, right.

00:33:27.685 --> 00:33:29.976
And that's sort of how Nextdoor had started.

00:33:29.976 --> 00:33:36.405
But the only reason he reached out to do that was because I'd been tweeting, I was working on scripts for other things.

00:33:36.405 --> 00:33:47.326
So I'd already taken that first step to just set aside 30 minutes to an hour a night after work to just play with scripting comics and to read.

00:33:47.705 --> 00:33:50.382
And it's a book I saw on your shelf earlier, The D***.

00:33:50.382 --> 00:33:51.981
Hardcover the vision.

00:33:51.981 --> 00:33:52.582
Oh sure.

00:33:52.582 --> 00:34:20.278
Yeah, and if you look in the back of that there's script pages side -by -side with finished art and so you can kind of see how the script led to the art and so I had that book and I had a couple others that had that kind of Script material in it So I was just reading those and I was just spending that 30 30 minutes to an hour every night like Discipline like something like like you would if you were working out, you know Just making myself sit down to do this and try to have fun with it and it wasn't fun at first like his It's hard, it's hard work.

00:34:20.278 --> 00:34:22.188
And then kind of sticking with it.

00:34:22.188 --> 00:34:23.679
But then there's different levels.

00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:31.969
So I made that first comic and after that happened, it took me a while to kind of figure out what my next move was.

00:34:32.449 --> 00:34:39.369
And it just, I think if you really want to do this, it'll keep coming back and keep coming back and you'll just feel incomplete.

00:34:39.369 --> 00:34:42.068
Like you have to do this, you're not going to be happy.

00:34:42.068 --> 00:34:47.728
And so yeah, I guess my advice around that is start writing, find an artist or a friend.

00:34:48.045 --> 00:34:49.425
try to do something small.

00:34:49.425 --> 00:34:56.715
Like you'll see people who come on Kickstarter with their first project and be 150 page graphic novel, the first to five.

00:34:56.715 --> 00:34:59.465
And it's like, I don't recommend that.

00:34:59.784 --> 00:35:02.025
That's not a good idea.

00:35:02.025 --> 00:35:04.125
Yeah, that's ambitious.

00:35:04.125 --> 00:35:04.443
Sure.

00:35:04.443 --> 00:35:07.704
But save that, save that after you've made some short comics.

00:35:07.704 --> 00:35:10.534
And Brian Bendis will talk about this a lot, like just make a comic.

00:35:10.534 --> 00:35:12.164
You can do it with stick figures.

00:35:12.164 --> 00:35:15.105
You can do it learning to draw very crudely.

00:35:15.105 --> 00:35:17.510
You can do it with a friend, whatever, like just.

00:35:17.614 --> 00:35:19.713
try your hand at it and get going.

00:35:19.873 --> 00:35:20.184
Yeah.

00:35:20.184 --> 00:35:31.134
Do you ever feel any of that type of, I'm sure you have, but just out of curiosity, feeling that imposter syndrome and what was kind of like your way of jumping over that in some way?

00:35:31.134 --> 00:35:34.764
I know it's kind of a broad question, but- No, I did, a hundred percent.

00:35:34.764 --> 00:35:35.583
You know what really helped?

00:35:35.583 --> 00:35:40.034
Getting off social media, taking a social media break.

00:35:40.353 --> 00:35:44.306
While I was working on Wear With Priest, I was - barely on social media.

00:35:44.306 --> 00:35:51.115
And it's kind of hurt me with marketing this campaign, to be totally honest with you, because I feel like there's people who back my first campaign.

00:35:51.115 --> 00:35:54.965
We were like Twitter buddies, and I disappeared on them in a way.

00:35:54.965 --> 00:35:57.996
And I get that, and so they're not as excited about this project.

00:35:57.996 --> 00:35:59.226
But I had to do it.

00:35:59.226 --> 00:36:07.346
There was that imposter syndrome, because you'll see people on there every day working on really cool stuff, impossibly cool stuff.

00:36:07.346 --> 00:36:09.876
Here's a new cover, here's new art, here's what I'm pitching.

00:36:09.876 --> 00:36:11.150
And it's just like...

00:36:11.150 --> 00:36:21.070
it all becomes a little intimidating after a while, this deluge of all this cool stuff that everybody seems to be working on and Kickstarters are rolling out and you don't know how you're gonna get to that point.

00:36:21.070 --> 00:36:25.130
Things happened on Twitter, you guys left, you know what was going on.

00:36:25.130 --> 00:36:30.110
It made it much easier to step away, I was gonna probably step away anyway.

00:36:30.110 --> 00:36:35.769
But that really helped, not being on social media to overcome imposter syndrome and just kind of working on things in a vacuum.

00:36:35.769 --> 00:36:42.041
And having a few very close friends, like my buddy, Harrison Stor and Easton DiVerno who are both comic creators.

00:36:42.041 --> 00:36:50.822
I was in touch with them the whole time while I was working on this stuff, running ideas by them, like having that kind of a close circle of people rooting you on and being like, yeah, this is cool.

00:36:50.822 --> 00:36:52.561
Maybe reconsider this.

00:36:52.561 --> 00:36:59.822
Like that was the other thing that really helped me kind of overcome any kind of imposter syndrome or like just being intimidated by the task, you know?

00:36:59.822 --> 00:37:00.942
Yeah.

00:37:00.942 --> 00:37:01.902
I don't know why.

00:37:01.902 --> 00:37:04.961
And again, I'm speaking from a friend here that's in the room with us right now.

00:37:04.961 --> 00:37:05.481
It's not me.

00:37:05.481 --> 00:37:06.262
It's definitely not me.

00:37:06.262 --> 00:37:08.202
It's somebody that's with us right now.

00:37:08.302 --> 00:37:21.541
I don't know why, but when I think, oh, I'm sorry, when they think that you got to write a script for a comic, like you got to like be Alan Moore for some reason, like you got to be this like seven layer deep subtext of just all these different elements.

00:37:21.541 --> 00:37:24.461
You're talking about God and the, and the universe.

00:37:24.461 --> 00:37:27.581
And, and you're also writing a compelling swamp thing story all at the same time.

00:37:27.581 --> 00:37:28.961
And you don't have to do that.

00:37:28.961 --> 00:37:34.822
You know, I have to keep telling this person that I know that's in the room with us, that that's not what you, not what you're supposed to do.

00:37:34.893 --> 00:37:53.184
Well, tell your friend, like, one thing that helped me with that was I tried to do one cool thing every other page, like to have one really cool thing, whether it was like in Nextdoor, there's a sequence of where time passes through three panels and they're like, it's a character on the phone and she's having the same progressive conversation.

00:37:53.184 --> 00:37:55.304
So the first panel, it's clearly summer.

00:37:55.304 --> 00:37:56.344
The next panel, it's fall.

00:37:56.344 --> 00:37:57.744
The next panel, it's winter, you know?

00:37:57.744 --> 00:38:00.893
And I was like, this is a cool thing you can only do with comics.

00:38:00.893 --> 00:38:05.737
Like, so rather than try to like, sum up God, that's what I did.

00:38:06.197 --> 00:38:12.518
I tried to every other page or so or like every so often I'd be like, you know what, even if this story is not working, people don't like it.

00:38:12.518 --> 00:38:15.757
At least I have this cool thing like that I'm kind of proud of.

00:38:15.757 --> 00:38:16.947
And I think is a little bit clever.

00:38:16.947 --> 00:38:18.557
Tell your friend that.

00:38:18.557 --> 00:38:20.378
Although no.

00:38:20.438 --> 00:38:24.038
Well, Zach, thank you so much for joining me here today on the Oblivion Bar podcast.

00:38:24.038 --> 00:38:25.878
The campaign ends on May 2nd.

00:38:25.878 --> 00:38:26.958
Is that correct for?

00:38:26.958 --> 00:38:27.588
That's right.

00:38:27.588 --> 00:38:27.818
Yeah.

00:38:27.818 --> 00:38:28.907
Midnight on May 2nd.

00:38:28.907 --> 00:38:31.737
Midnight on May 2nd, the death of comic book case volume one.

00:38:31.737 --> 00:38:36.862
Everyone make sure If you're listening right now, please check out the link in our show notes to back this incredible anthology.

00:38:36.862 --> 00:38:39.722
I honestly cannot implore people to do that enough.

00:38:39.722 --> 00:38:49.112
And Zach, I'll speak to you here personally, you and what your artists have done here with the Death of Comic bookcase is something that many of us, as we've talked about, we've all dreamed of it, you know, and you're doing it.

00:38:49.112 --> 00:38:51.041
You're freaking doing it right now.

00:38:51.041 --> 00:38:59.802
And just giant congratulations from Aaron and I for the wild success that is not only this campaign, but also the book because it is excellent.

00:38:59.802 --> 00:39:00.342
Thank you.

00:39:00.342 --> 00:39:01.541
No, I really appreciate that.

00:39:01.541 --> 00:39:02.382
I hope.

00:39:02.382 --> 00:39:08.121
people who love the medium as much as you all clearly do with your show and how, how great of a job you do with it.

00:39:08.121 --> 00:39:13.481
Like if I inspire any of you to make comics, man, what a great, what a great legacy that would be for this project.

00:39:13.481 --> 00:39:14.362
100%.

00:39:14.362 --> 00:39:17.481
Well, Zach, I'm going to pass the baton off to you one last time.

00:39:17.481 --> 00:39:19.492
Is there anything that you want to plug out?

00:39:19.492 --> 00:39:26.291
I mean, it could be death of comic book case or it could not be anything you want to plug any socials to highlight before we let you go.

00:39:26.291 --> 00:39:27.565
You can find me on all.

00:39:27.565 --> 00:39:31.766
on blueskies .com, I'm probably a little more active on there than anywhere else.

00:39:31.766 --> 00:39:36.516
Comics Bookcase on Twitter is always keep that around to promote whatever my next project is.

00:39:36.516 --> 00:39:42.865
And then if you really want to make sure you don't miss when I'm up to, if you go to comicsbookcase .com, you can still sign up for the newsletter there.

00:39:42.865 --> 00:39:49.726
And I use that sort of now to update people very sporadically on what I'm writing and when I have new projects.

00:39:49.726 --> 00:39:51.945
But other than that, please back the project.

00:39:51.945 --> 00:39:55.525
Last thing I'd like to say is all these artists are absolutely amazing.

00:39:55.525 --> 00:39:58.690
Like, would be no book without them.

00:39:59.190 --> 00:40:02.380
And them being willing to work with me on this is an incredible honor.

00:40:02.380 --> 00:40:04.409
So shout out to each and every one of them.

00:40:04.409 --> 00:40:11.429
What you've done over the last, I'd say, you know, two weeks or so in terms of promoting this book is incredible.

00:40:11.429 --> 00:40:17.769
You know, you have been tenacious, I guess is maybe the best word to say in terms of the way you post about it, which is incredible.

00:40:17.889 --> 00:40:18.960
I'm an amateur.

00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:21.070
The master is David Pepos.

00:40:21.670 --> 00:40:22.094
Oh, yeah.

00:40:22.094 --> 00:40:23.713
Yeah, he's the guru.

00:40:23.713 --> 00:40:28.094
Like he's the one if you want to know how to promote a comic book, look at David Pepos.

00:40:28.094 --> 00:40:29.273
Like he's an inspiration.

00:40:29.273 --> 00:40:35.574
And actually before I started, he was the first one I knew who did comics press, who went into making comics.

00:40:35.574 --> 00:40:39.153
And so like he's been an incredible resource and incredible help.

00:40:39.153 --> 00:40:45.003
Like I've asked him so many questions and I've asked him like, Hey, is it harder to get taken seriously as a creator if you've done press?

00:40:45.003 --> 00:40:46.474
And he's just been great.

00:40:46.474 --> 00:40:57.929
Like it has been rigorous, um, all the promotion and it never stops, but like, That guy, that guy, man, like that guy's everywhere promoting space goes right now, like twice as hard as I'm promoting this.

00:40:57.929 --> 00:40:59.730
But yeah, that's where I learned that.

00:40:59.730 --> 00:41:08.269
I know we're kind of winding down the conversation, but it sort of feels like we're all just trying to add our sort of our love letter into the medium.

00:41:08.269 --> 00:41:11.829
We're trying to like highlight what's great about the medium in some way or another.

00:41:11.829 --> 00:41:18.789
And it sort of feels like the modern, or at least it seems more, it seems more apparent or more apt to happen now.

00:41:18.789 --> 00:41:20.269
The natural progression.

00:41:20.269 --> 00:41:24.630
as like a podcaster, a journalist, someone who loves comics and that's where you start.

00:41:24.630 --> 00:41:33.590
And eventually if you either find yourself with the know -how or the right person or just the ability, you will make your way into actually writing the physical comics themselves.

00:41:33.590 --> 00:41:35.130
Yeah, I mean, two things.

00:41:35.130 --> 00:41:38.610
I think comics is a, it demands your participation at a certain point.

00:41:38.610 --> 00:41:45.010
Like there's a long history of like people who start in fan press and like just want to do it themselves.

00:41:45.010 --> 00:41:47.726
And the barrier to entry is not as high as something like.

00:41:47.726 --> 00:41:51.365
writing an entire novel or making a whole, certainly making a whole movie.

00:41:51.365 --> 00:42:01.865
And then, yeah, like now I think it's harder than ever to like break in or to like, like a lot of the traditional channels for like pitching to a publisher, getting on at a publisher.

00:42:01.865 --> 00:42:04.356
It's like the market's in a bit of a downswing.

00:42:04.356 --> 00:42:05.115
It's just hard.

00:42:05.115 --> 00:42:12.425
It's, it's really difficult to kind of break in the way we've, you traditionally think of it, but it's easier than ever to have a web comic or crowd fund.

00:42:12.425 --> 00:42:17.101
So like, I think that's another thing that's like really opened up the path to go from like.

00:42:17.101 --> 00:42:26.211
And if you have the DIY spirit of doing your own podcast or blog, it's a very similar skill set to promoting your own crowd funder or webcomic.

00:42:26.211 --> 00:42:31.442
So it kind of opens doors for you that way that you've done this.

00:42:31.442 --> 00:42:38.782
I wouldn't know you, I wouldn't know Lisa, I wouldn't know half the people who I've talked to without having done Comics Press.

00:42:38.782 --> 00:42:42.829
Well, friend in the room listening right now, you hear that?

00:42:42.829 --> 00:42:44.650
You can do it.

00:42:44.650 --> 00:42:47.090
So everyone listening right now to this conversation, you can do it as well.

00:42:47.090 --> 00:42:52.969
If you like what Zach has done here with the Death of Comics bookcase, just know that he's been where we are.

00:42:52.969 --> 00:42:59.750
So make sure that if he can do it and do it as well as he has thus far, that gives everyone a little bit of a little bit more confidence in themselves.

00:42:59.750 --> 00:43:12.878
So Zach, once again, I want to thank you for coming on the Oblivion Bar podcast and down the road at some point, I'd love to have you back on for the Death of the Common Book, or excuse me, the Death of Common Bookcase volume two or just whatever you're working on at that time.

00:43:12.878 --> 00:43:13.838
Yeah, anytime, man.

00:43:13.838 --> 00:43:14.637
This was a blast.

00:43:14.637 --> 00:43:15.838
I'd love to come back.

00:43:15.838 --> 00:43:16.108
Awesome.

00:43:16.108 --> 00:43:16.938
Well, thank you, Zach.

00:43:16.938 --> 00:43:18.019
Thank you.